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  #1  
Old 06-24-2015, 04:29 PM
Sansas (Charlie)
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Default HUGE Taming Milestone!

https://youtu.be/kLjbPIGGyyo



Inspired (and infuriated; he recs flooding smaller parrots) by How to Tame & Train Parrot - Step by Step Taming Guide I set a goal to get Greyjoy as hand tame as possible. In the video you will see me stroke his back a few times and then lift him. This is only the second time he has allowed me to lift him this way, the first time being about 10 minutes before. As soon as it happened the first time I put him away and ran to get my camera to catch it on video.

I cannot emphasis enough the this is a result of trust and taming. I did not grab him against his will and I have not (and WILL NOT) flood him. Before this point we have been working on getting him comfortable with my hand on and near his back and wings in so many ways. Also when I am training him the millet is much more rationed. When taming I am aiming for an overall fun and positive experience. He's not a fan of my touching his back, so the bountiful treats keep him on the happy side.

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Old 06-24-2015, 08:21 PM
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.....Bravo....that is wonderful, and a fine illustration of how patience, and doing the right thing's will often lead to success. Thank's for sharing the video, I'm sure it will be an encouragement to folk's starting down the path you've traveled...
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:55 PM
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Congratulations on this amazing bit of progress. Karma for your patience and perseverance

Just one silly question for you: what's flooding?
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:22 PM
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Thanks!

As I understand it "flooding" is a training technique where you overwhelm the animal until they submit. With budgies that might look like garbing them and holding them until they stop struggling. I'm still learning, but seems to be controvisial, but potentially usful with some animals I think, for example, to some degree I flooded my cats when they were kittens. I would hold them until they stoped being punks and started purring. I didn't know the term at the time but I think it might fit. It's supposed to have a very different impact on prey v Predators?

Anywho I probably should have left that bit out. I've just been obsessing over the trained parrot blog, and as much as I love his advice for parrots, I wasn't impressed with some things he wrote about budgies. So I was being snippy. On the other hand I'm pretty sure the stuff I read was probably even several years old... so yeah.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:25 PM
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Many people think that a successful relationship can be achieved by intimidating the submissive animal as you mentioned. This is a terrible way to build a relationship with your bird, and is built on fear, not trust. Good on you for realizing this and going at his pace He seems to be doing so well! Good job
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansas View Post
Thanks!

As I understand it "flooding" is a training technique where you overwhelm the animal until they submit. With budgies that might look like garbing them and holding them until they stop struggling. I'm still learning, but seems to be controvisial, but potentially usful with some animals I think, for example, to some degree I flooded my cats when they were kittens. I would hold them until they stoped being punks and started purring. I didn't know the term at the time but I think it might fit. It's supposed to have a very different impact on prey v Predators?

Anywho I probably should have left that bit out. I've just been obsessing over the trained parrot blog, and as much as I love his advice for parrots, I wasn't impressed with some things he wrote about budgies. So I was being snippy. On the other hand I'm pretty sure the stuff I read was probably even several years old... so yeah.
Thank you, that's very helpful and I do agree with you, flooding sounds like a big no-no when it comes to budgies. I can see how it could make them submissive but fail to comprehend how anyone would do that if they wanted to create a true bond with their bird.

No apologies requested. It's okay to feel strongly about something. It is respectable and you did not offend anyone.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:16 AM
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That's great Charlie! Persistence pays off, yay for you and Greyjoy
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:22 AM
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Don't get too hung up on the way Michael discusses flooding, force/reconcile, particularly in old articles or you risk throwing out the baby with the proverbial bath water. It's certainly not suggested in his book - he treats all birds the same, regardless of size, and suggests you don't bring a bird out until it is settled within the cage, using the steps: settled to your presence and hands, accepting treats, clicker conditioning, target, then step up. In fact he even goes so far as to suggest that the accepted "push a finger into the belly" step up method is forcing, and shouldn't be done.

As he has matured as a trainer, and the larger his parrots have been, the more he's been forced to actively avoid force/reconcile situations as much as possible. He hasn't had a budgie for a verrrrrry long time, and there's no way he'd force Truman, or he'd lose a finger.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:22 AM
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Congrats! It's so exciting to see Greyjoy's progress. (I looove watching videos! More! More!)

By the bye, if you aren't a fan of Michael, check out Barbara Heidenreich (if you favour dvds) or Ann Castro (for books you can get on Amazon). Lots of trainers out there and I'm sure that if Michael isn't a good fit, you can find someone who you just 'click' (pun fully intended) with.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki View Post
Don't get too hung up on the way Michael discusses flooding, force/reconcile, particularly in old articles or you risk throwing out the baby with the proverbial bath water. It's certainly not suggested in his book - he treats all birds the same, regardless of size, and suggests you don't bring a bird out until it is settled within the cage, using the steps: settled to your presence and hands, accepting treats, clicker conditioning, target, then step up. In fact he even goes so far as to suggest that the accepted "push a finger into the belly" step up method is forcing, and shouldn't be done.

As he has matured as a trainer, and the larger his parrots have been, the more he's been forced to actively avoid force/reconcile situations as much as possible. He hasn't had a budgie for a verrrrrry long time, and there's no way he'd force Truman, or he'd lose a finger.
Thank you AnnMarie! If I recall you were the one who first defined flooding for me. In all honestly I think Micheal is pretty flipping amazing. If he weren't I wouldn't have binge read his entire blog over two days. But since I did read it all so quickly it's easy to lose perspective on the actual timeline. I've made at least as many, ahem; educational errors, with my bird over a month as he does over 4 years. We are all still learning, aren't we.

I have a strong Knee jerk reaction to flooding, and since I just learned about it I'm still working through my own feelings.


What I actually wanted to emphasis about my video is that this is the RESULT not the process.
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