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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Your Budgie's Health > Emergency Room > Follow-up Center


Follow-up Center Threads made in the Emergency Room forum will be moved here by staff as a way to follow-up with members after their budgie emergency. This keeps the E.R. for only the most current emergencies.

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  #11  
Old 08-02-2015, 01:49 PM
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These chicks are in real trouble and need the help of an experienced breeder or vet, preferably an avian vet experienced in chick crop problems. I think they are past the point of you being able to help them on your own. I hope you can find someone to help and they get better, good luck!

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  #12  
Old 08-02-2015, 03:12 PM
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thank you for all the responses. my internet was down (dog knocked cord out) and I just got them.

I took pictures of their crop this morning after a 10 hour fast and have included them below. the crop was a lot smaller which I hope is a good sign. Since i did not get the information to hold feeding, I did give them some thinned out formula but not as much. The last picture is of after eating.

I can not afford the only vet that I could find. does anyone know any experienced individuals in the Hamilton Ontario area that I could hire to show me how to care for this problem?

Cutelittlebirds -
How much have you been feeding them at each feeding on average?
its hard to tell since I have been spoon feeding and it makes a fair amount of mess. a guesstimate would be 4 mls.

Are the chicks still pooping? yes
When was the last time their crops emptied completely? about a week

I am certain they are about 3 weeks. I got them 2 weeks ago and the owner said they were about a week old then.

Kate C
no worries, I work with Celsius as a nurse.
aside from the first few days I have been using a thermometer for their food too. im not a good judge by feel.
I really need someone to show me how to lavage their crops

BudgieAwesome
ive been looking at that exact site for a week!!!and debatingattempting the treatments but have been scared.
Attached Thumbnails
Chicks with Slow Crop-chick-morning.jpg   Chicks with Slow Crop-chick-morn-2.jpg   Chicks with Slow Crop-chick-morn-3.jpg   Chicks with Slow Crop-chick-morn4.jpg   Chicks with Slow Crop-chick-morn-after-feed.jpg  

  #13  
Old 08-02-2015, 06:24 PM
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Here's the link to the page with the amount to feed:

General Hand Feeding Times And Amounts - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

They look much better today.

Did you get the links in the PM I sent to you yesterday?
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:37 PM
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They are looking a lot better this morning. They are looking brighter and more alert.

Personally I would at this stage cut down the amount you are feeding at each feed and if you have to feed a little more often but I would also let them completely empty their crop first. By doing this the crop muscle may work a bit better and shrink more to normal and not so stretched. If anything I would give some very watery papaya until the crop starts working properly again. You also didn't say how many times you are feeding them. But usually they should be fed 3 times per day, that is if their crops are working properly. Maybe because of their size 4ml is a bit too much, drop that down to 2 or 3ml, even if you have to feed 4 times per day and make the food runner. Depending on the formula their instructions for thickness of the mix is a bit off, especially for younger birds. Personally I am not too impressed with most of the commercial hand raising mixes as nearly all of them contain soy and I think this is the meal that does harden in the crop when they draw water out from the crop. I am not a fan of soy meal as so much of it has been genetically modified. For this reason a number of years ago I started making my own formula, it does not appear to separate in the crop and is more easily digested by the babies as the main cereals I use in it are partially pre-cooked because they are baby cereals and based mainly on rice. If you want this formula I am perfectly happy to give it to you. But changing formulas half way through raising is not always advised.

As you are in your Summer at the moment, dehydration is a bigger factor than starvation. Baby birds can go at least 36 hours before starvation starts but they cannot go many hours before dehydration. So I would keep them on quite runny food at this time.

Years ago I had to hand raise a baby cockatiel from day 1 and every time I tried to thicken his food slightly his crop would stop. I had to milk his crop about 3 or 4 times every time this happened and basically start from scratch. I didn't think he would ever survive and he was so tiny. I successfully hand raised him but he was much smaller than other babies the same age. By the time he was six months old he had caught up to the other birds in size.

As a nurse are you able to get Hartmann's Solution, if so you can use this to mix with the papaya as opposed to just plain water. You can heat up small quantities in the microwave for mixing with the formula or papaya. This will help to keep them hydrated.

As for how to use a crop needle I am posting a link to Vetafarm Australia. This supplier is run by vets and they have a specialist avian vet with Tony Gestier. They have a range of online videos on various subjects and 2 of them are how to use a crop needle (they also supply them). I am giving the link that has all of their videos as there are more than one is with regards to birds that you may find informative.

Videos - Vetafarm

If the link does not work because you are not in Australia just do a Google search for Vetafarm and go to videos as they also have an international site that I can't access. But the 2 videos on crop needling are also on Facebook.

Just a little thing that I do to with baby birds is that I put a small stuffed toy in the brooder with them, I have a few of them so that I can wash them. But it gives the babies something to snuggle up to like they would with mum and they seem to find some comfort from it.
  #15  
Old 08-02-2015, 08:33 PM
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Faerybee- thank you so much for the information via pm. And for flagging my post.

Kate c- you are very knowledgable. Thank you for the advice!!

I have been feeding them every 3-4 hours throughout the day and recently started a 8 hour break at night. I will go back to syringe feeding to monitor their input more closely. Also I will do papaya feeds for the rest of today. I am on maternity leave at present so do not have access to Hartmanns but do have unflavoured pedialyte. Is that ok to use? Otherwise I can get the fluids from my vet (for cat and dog) after the holiday.

I love your idea for the stuffy. Definitely going to do that!!! As you saw in one picture they have daily visits with their dad but he doesn't lay with them (he does clean their bedding though which is nice).

If you don't mind sending me your formula recipe I would appreciate it. I noticed the problems started when I went from rice baby cereal to bird formula. I also have a great baby cereal for my daughter with an organic mix of powdered miller, amaranth, buckwheat and quinoa. it is also fortified. Would that be safe for them. Here is the link
Ancient Grain Organic Cereal | Baby Gourmet

I really hope my baby birds will be ok. I need to get their crop working better and hopefully the advice will help.

Should I continue to give them apple cider vinegar? How much?
Also I have nystatin, should I give that? I read candid is common with this issue. How much?
  #16  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:01 PM
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Every 3-4 hours would explain a lot with their crops being so full. Usual recommendations are 3 times over a 16 hour period and babies completely empty in the morning. And the unflavoured pedialyte shyould be fine.

The only problem I have with that baby cereal is the amount of iron, humans need that amount but birds can have a problem with food that is high in iron. Some species more so than others.

Personally I don't use ACV, have really never found the need to. With the Nystatin it would not hurt to go on a course of 5 days of it. Very little will be needed for such small birds and it needs to be given at least 1/2 hour before feeding otherwise it is diluted too much. One drop would be more than adequate. With a cockatiel it would be .5ml or half a ml 3 times a day for 5 to 10 days.

This is my hand raising mix. Everything is in powder form and it keeps quite well. As you are only doing a couple of birds you can divide the formula to a more manageable level. I am quite often doing a number of birds so I make up a few kilo's at at time. The first 4 ingredients are Heinz and I know they make similar products in Canada that can be used. I always make sure I have one with banana in it as it is high in potassium, phosporus and magnesium which is often lacking in seed. When I mix it up I make it like runny yoghurt, not thick Greek style. You may need to make it a bit runnier because of the problems with the babies, if you use this one. I have had lots of success with it and so has a couple of friends who are using it on very expensive exotics.

500g Farex Original Formula Cereal
200g Pear & Banana Cereal
200g Rice & Apple Cereal
200g Fruit & Muesli Cereal
100g Semolina
30g Brewers Yeast
40g Malt Powder
50g Whole Egg Powder
75g Calcium
100g Dextrose
50g Sunflower Seed De Husked
200g Oat Bran
200g Polenta
150g Kelp Meal or Seaweed Meal
200g LSA (Linseed Sunflower & Almond Meal)

Grind in a blender in small batches.
  #17  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:28 PM
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You are doing wonderfully and the babies do look much better. Are they active between feeds, or sleeping and looking cute? I am sending lots of healing thoughts and positive hopes for you . Can you possibly ring a local radio station or email them and ask them to put out an SOS for any breeders in your area perhaps you can get in touch then with somebody with some experience for more encouragement and piece of mind. Take care.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:41 PM
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Kate has a great deal of experience and I'm so glad she's here to help you.

Cathy's idea of contacting the local radio (or TV?) stations to get the word out for breeders who may be able to help you is a great idea.

Please keep us updated on the chicks' progress.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepswimming View Post
thank you for all the responses. my internet was down (dog knocked cord out) and I just got them.

I took pictures of their crop this morning after a 10 hour fast and have included them below. the crop was a lot smaller which I hope is a good sign. Since i did not get the information to hold feeding, I did give them some thinned out formula but not as much. The last picture is of after eating.

I can not afford the only vet that I could find. does anyone know any experienced individuals in the Hamilton Ontario area that I could hire to show me how to care for this problem?

Cutelittlebirds -
How much have you been feeding them at each feeding on average?
its hard to tell since I have been spoon feeding and it makes a fair amount of mess. a guesstimate would be 4 mls.

Are the chicks still pooping? yes
When was the last time their crops emptied completely? about a week

I am certain they are about 3 weeks. I got them 2 weeks ago and the owner said they were about a week old then.

Kate C
no worries, I work with Celsius as a nurse.
aside from the first few days I have been using a thermometer for their food too. im not a good judge by feel.
I really need someone to show me how to lavage their crops

BudgieAwesome
ive been looking at that exact site for a week!!!and debatingattempting the treatments but have been scared.
You said that the only vet you could find was expensive. heres a site with some places near/in Hamilton (who knows, an avian vet may work at one/some if them):
Veterinarians in Hamilton ON | YellowPages.ca?
Also, i don't know if this site will be helpful and if some of the places/people on the site will be near you, but i think this other site has people with avian experience:
HAMILTON PARROT CLUB
I just wanted to add, there would probably be some avian vets around Toronto, as its such big place, but that might be a bit far from where you are (maps can be deceiving )
  #20  
Old 08-03-2015, 07:34 PM
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I have cut down the feedings and frequency. So far so good. Their crops are not fully emptying but decreasing by about 3/4 or more and they are popping

They are very active chicks!! Always chirping and moving around. I can even hold easily since they are always trying to climb and run around.

Toronto is a bit far for me personally. I have called quite a few of the vets on the list but some I will try tomorrow after the holiday. I also sent a message to the parrot group you posted. Hopefully they can help or send me in the right direction.
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