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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #21  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:49 AM
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It think both parents are recessive pieds and snowy is a mixed sf dominant as well. This means all the babies have to be recessive pieds and some are mixed like Snowy. You would expect 25% to be mixed recessive and dominant pied.

I would guess the ones with completely clear wings are mixed.

They are all also greywings I think and the one bright blue baby is maybe a full body greywing.

They are all seriously gorgeous and such good birdies to perch so well all together for their pictures!!

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  #22  
Old 12-01-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuts4Birdies View Post
It think both parents are recessive pieds and snowy is a mixed sf dominant as well. This means all the babies have to be recessive pieds and some are mixed like Snowy. You would expect 25% to be mixed recessive and dominant pied.

I would guess the ones with completely clear wings are mixed.

They are all also greywings I think and the one bright blue baby is maybe a full body greywing.

They are all seriously gorgeous and such good birdies to perch so well all together for their pictures!!
I thought of that as well but then why does Snowy have iris rings? Recessive pieds don't have iris rings but he does... It's such a mystery!
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:40 PM
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Because he's also dominant pied and that combo causes strange things like the pink and blue cere. Sometimes mixed pied have one iris white and the other plum like a rp. So cool!
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2013, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuts4Birdies View Post
Because he's also dominant pied and that combo causes strange things like the pink and blue cere. Sometimes mixed pied have one iris white and the other plum like a rp. So cool!
Hmm, good point! I wonder which traits are more dominant. I suppose only a DNA test could tell me for sure what Snowy is... Hmm.
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuts4Birdies View Post
It think both parents are recessive pieds and snowy is a mixed sf dominant as well. This means all the babies have to be recessive pieds and some are mixed like Snowy. You would expect 25% to be mixed recessive and dominant pied.

I would guess the ones with completely clear wings are mixed.
Actually 50% would be combination pied if Hari is recessive pied and Snowy is single factor dominant pied mixed with recessive pied. Of course if Snowy is in fact double factor dominant pied, all the chicks would be combination pieds. None of them look like any recessive pieds I've ever seen, so maybe he is double factor d. pied.

I don't know how only one chick could be fullbody colour greywing. The thought had crossed my mind but if Snowy is a fullbody greywing and Hari is a greywing, it would still be 50/50, and although it is possible to only get one fullbody greywing, one would expect at least two to indicate for sure that Snowy is a fullbody greywing... Hmmm. Maybe I'll breed them again later and see what I get the next time - they were a wonderful pair, so kind to each other and their chicks.
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2013, 02:20 PM
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:57 PM
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First off, it is important to remember that just because the expected outcome is X, and that is usually true when you look at hundreds of clutches and the resulting chicks, on an individual clutch basis you can have great extremes very easily

Perfect example is my one albino hen Opal. I had no idea what she was masking, so was looking forward to hopefully figuring that out through her chick outcomes! The first clutch was 5 chicks, who were all greys. I figured she was probably a df grey... but wanted another clutch to make my mind up Second clutch of 4 chicks, all were greys again. After 9 chicks, I was almost completely sure she was a DF grey. What are the odds of a sf grey having that many greys in a row, right? It was not until her third clutch of 7, with the youngest chicks even I might add, that a blue one finally popped up. In total out of her 16 chicks, only TWO were blues! That taught me a very valuable lesson... unless you are 100% sure because of the genetic background, don't assume anything to be for certain because you could easily be wrong

Having said that, another thing that can very greatly is pied markings in themselves. A Sf can on rare occasions look like a typical df, and the other way around. If they come from lines that do not breed for the standard, which lets face it most do not unfortunatly, at least in the pet type breeding, this can often leave us a bit up the creek trying to figure out what we actually have Snowy does not look like a typical DF dominant pied, but he could very well be and just have less markings than we would expect. He could also be a sf dominant pied though with heavy markings... breeding him to a hen with no pied at all in visual or split forms is going to be your best bet, as you probably will only have more confusion the next round with Hari of you breed her to him again


Here is a perfect example of what I mean about pied markings and how bad they can easlily be from what we expect. What would you guess this little guy to be?



A normal mauve, probably split to recessive pied given the very small pied patch on the back of his head?



At least that is what I figured, until I saw his chicks Say hello to a sf cleaflight pied! Never would have guessed it, but that is what he is, and time and time again his chicks proved it. There are no clear cut rules unless the birds come from really good sources that breed only to the standards, and even then you will get a big variety

To be continued in another post.... I don't want to loose all this if something messes up
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2013, 06:38 PM
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The same is true in variety with the depth of color in any form of dilution, like greywing. Variety in color does not mean that they are not just greywings, but that they have different amounds of pigment effected

Color adding factors like violet can effect the body color a great deal on any dilution mutation too, making it appear much brighter than you would expect. This does not mean they are fullbody greywings though Here is an example of this too in one of my hens Myra, she is a violet green greywing, and you can see how much brighter she is than one without any violet factors:




Snowy does not look like a combination pied to me for a number of reasons. First because he does not have a uniform colored pink/purple cere, but the typical mottled of a dominant pied, although most of it is pink and effected by the pied. Second because he does have iris rings, which 99% of the time recessive pieds do not. You could easily get the same outcome if he is only split for recessive pied as with him being a full visual in a single clutch, as I mentioned above if the chicks did happen to be all combination pieds though

The chicks all look very much like snowy, with the exception of some also being opaline and green. If I had to guess, as that is really all we can do in a situation like this I would say he is a heavily marked sf dominant pied greywing as are his chicks, with a couple of them possibly being combinations, but breeding might be the only way to know for 100% sure
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CuteLittleBirdies View Post

The chicks all look very much like snowy, with the exception of some also being opaline and green. If I had to guess, as that is really all we can do in a situation like this I would say he is a heavily marked sf dominant pied greywing as are his chicks, with a couple of them possibly being combinations, but breeding might be the only way to know for 100% sure
Thank you so much! I have a violet greywing that isn't pied that I wanted to breed with Snowy anyways, so that works out perfectly.

Which chicks are opaline? I'm always so bad with identifying opaline. Does that mean Snowy is split for it since Hari is opaline?

Would I be right in guessing that the chicks with the small amount of body colour on their lower belly near their feet are the combination pieds?
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2013, 02:39 AM
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Actually 50% would be combination pied if Hari is recessive pied and Snowy is single factor dominant pied mixed with recessive pied. Of course if Snowy is in fact double factor dominant pied, all the chicks would be combination pieds. None of them look like any recessive pieds I've ever seen, so maybe he is double factor d. pied.

I don't know how only one chick could be fullbody colour greywing. The thought had crossed my mind but if Snowy is a fullbody greywing and Hari is a greywing, it would still be 50/50, and although it is possible to only get one fullbody greywing, one would expect at least two to indicate for sure that Snowy is a fullbody greywing... Hmmm. Maybe I'll breed them again later and see what I get the next time - they were a wonderful pair, so kind to each other and their chicks.
I realized later I got my math wrong. Easy to do with so much going on!
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