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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 06-10-2014, 04:21 AM
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Default Impossible Mutations

Sometimes I get to thinking about my birds too much....


Every "mutation" that budgies have are pretty much man-made, is this a mostly-correct statement?
I mean, I know the genetics were there before people got there hands on them, but it took cages and selective breeding to get away from wild-color green and yellow birds.


I dont think there are too many cobalt recessive pied spangled doublefactor yellowface opaline single factor violet English-sized budgies flying wild in outback Australia with the massive flocks.... maybe some escaped pet birds in the cities though


Anyways, I'm just wondering if all of the mutative potential of the budgie has been reached.

Here is a list of some mutations I would like to see....

Greenino= all green with whitish flight/tail
blueino= all blue w whitish flights/tail
blueface-green= green bird with blue face
greenface-blue= blue bird with green face
blue/greenface-yellow/white= yellow or white bird with a colored face
greyface- fairly self explanatory
black budgie= seriously, why on earth is there not a all-black budgie already in existence???
red/orange colors= see "black budgie" above ^^^; add to any colored-face-combo above

I mean, isn't there like a special team of top people somewhere working on this problem?

How cool would it be to have a red dfgreyfaceII....

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  #2  
Old 06-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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There are limitations in every species when it comes to mutations. For example it is very rare for a gene to malfunction in only a part of the animal (blue and green in the same bird for example)... Unless it's a chimera of some sort in which case it is not a mutation that could be passed on to the offspring.

Most (if not all - I must admit I didn't manage to read them all yet as I'm in a moving buss ) the mutations you listed are unfortunately impossible to produce, but it takes some genetic knowledge to undestand why. I can try to explain some cases more when I get home on a real computer.

There's a but though! By combining mutations you can get for example a bird that looks much like the one you named "blueino", a blue df spangle opaline (and the same works for green too but it needs some pied mutation to get white-ish flights): https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...910/img159.jpg (I don't know who's photo it is so I can't post it as a photo, only link to it).

Last edited by annip; 06-10-2014 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:54 PM
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Annip explained things very well, I just wanted to add that "man made" isn't quite correct. It's not like they were genetically modified in a lab. New Mutations occur by surprise and it's then the good work of the breeder that finds it to replicate it and keep the gene alive.

When you look at budgies you have to think about the original colours that exist on the wild bird. Green body, yellow head and wings, black markings with navy blue tail feathers, violet cheeks. Now for some childhood art flashbacks. Green is made up of yellow and blue. In a blue bird the yellow gene is suppressed so in the absence of this colour, the body is blue and the head is white. You can't get a blue or green headed bird when the original colour was yellow the same goes for most of the things you listed. You still have to imagine within the parameters of how the budgie is designed to begin with and the colour palette you are given
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:24 AM
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Aisliyna already mentioned why mutations aren't exactly man made, but I'll try to explain it a little further. (All though I managed to get myself in a very shaky buss again. )

Mutations occur in the wild all the time, even color mutations (note that there are many other mutations too... for example the shape of our ears is possibly caused byt multiple different mutations in certain genes). Most of them don't survive for many reasons as the parents may not feed an odd looking baby or predators will catch it because it doesn't blend into the backround as it should. Or no partner will take it. So there are multiple reasons why a bird wouldn't get any offspring to pass the gene on.

Humans are able to intervene in many ways. We only need a succesful mating from the birds and we can do the rest (all though there are even cases of artificial insemination in budgies, but it was for research, not establishing mutations). We can also play a huge part when birds are choosing their mates, because we can limit the possibilities and even alter breeding hormones by simulating certain contidions in the wild. And once we find out the inheritation pattern of a certain gene, we usually do all we can to pass it on. Many mutations are established with inbreeding for several generations, which doesn't happen in a wild, 3000 budgie flock that easily. Inbreeding also increases the possibility for new mutations to show up (both good and bad, so this is no way a suggestion for anyone to try it out).

And as Aisliyna said, making yellow areas greeen or blue isn't possible. Red is also not an option since budgies just don't have red pigments in them. Greyface and black might be possible with some sort of melanistic mutation, but what I've read and seen about melanistic birds, white parts usually seem to stay white, so I'm not sure if grey is possible. I must admit that melanism is a bit outside my genetic knowledge... But even with these, the mutation has to happen before we humans can do anything about it and even then sometimes we just don't manage to keep it.

There is a blackfaced mutation in budgies though, where the barring covers the birds whole face and most of the body, but it hasn't been established yet. That with antracite would produce a very dark bird, nearly black probably.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:49 AM
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simple....get some pet friendly feather dye ^.^

i would love to see a pure black budgie, i would want to breed them.

just think......if budgies came in a variety of colors.....like fish! black budgie red face with yellow tail.

the mutation chart will be about 100 pages long!

what about neon colors? haha, black with neon green recessive pied haha

i know its impossible but with all these genetically modified animals....why not get the color gene and replace it with.....a macaws? (may end up with HUGE budgies)
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:13 PM
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lol, science, science, science...
I did not want a scientific explanation(tho you all provided some pretty good ones)...
logic, reason, common sense, and science can all go kick rocks, I want a red bluefaceII... !!!

Sarah, I like where your heads at
Macaw. Sized. Budgies.... yes please!!
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:33 AM
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Haha you guys are loopy

I'd be terrified of a macaw sized budgie. Have you ever been bit by a budgie hen that wouldn't let go? I'd probably have lost a finger or two by now lol
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisliyna View Post
Haha you guys are loopy

I'd be terrified of a macaw sized budgie. Have you ever been bit by a budgie hen that wouldn't let go? I'd probably have lost a finger or two by now lol
Nope, never been bit by my budgie hen.. She loves me .. ((And I take the eggs from out of under her ))
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:12 AM
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haha i couldn't imagine the size of the eggs!

there would be so many people renting out warehouses just to keep them

what if....at the same time.....the grew teeth! like proper canine teeth!

....i think were inventing the next killer budgie....called budcaw
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisliyna View Post
Haha you guys are loopy

I'd be terrified of a macaw sized budgie. Have you ever been bit by a budgie hen that wouldn't let go? I'd probably have lost a finger or two by now lol

Lol, I say the same thing about my JackRussellTerrier.... if he was a 100lb dog, the entire planet would be in trouble...
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