Talk Budgies Forums

Talk Budgies Forums (https://www.talkbudgies.com/forum.php)
-   Mutations and Genetics (https://www.talkbudgies.com/25-mutations-genetics/)
-   -   Baby skin pigment and pieds (https://www.talkbudgies.com/mutations-genetics/247609-baby-skin-pigment-pieds.html)

annip 11-19-2014 01:52 PM

Baby skin pigment and pieds
 
I have a dominant pied male and recessive pied female breeding at the moment. I know that dad is split to greywing and that neither of his parents were recessive pied, but I realize the gene can hide for generations..

Three babies are old enough to see pigmentation in the wings and shoulders (11, 9 and 7 days) but don't have feathers yet. I know I will eventually be able to see more, but I just love to learn and wonder about these things and I must admit I'm a little impatient also. :rolleyes:

Oldest baby is very clearly a pied. It has pigment on both shoulders, but none in the wings. Other shoulder has a clearly larger spot than the other, which I'm thinking is not that typical for a dominant pied though? Or is it? The father is very symmetrical and so have been all other dominant pieds I've seen. I know to look for the chest band and other usual markings once it grows though. :)

Second baby is clearly non-pied. And probably opaline since it seems to have a bright white down. No big mysteries there.

But the third baby is a bit odd. It has no pigmentation on the skin whatsoever. There might be a teeny tiny spot on the other wing (just at the tip) and if so, it's only one or two feathers (compared to pied cockatiels that I have more experience on).

Now I have a few options:
1) Dad is actually split to recessive pied and baby number 3 is a combination of both. (I'm guessing this is the most likely option..)
2) Baby number three is a greywing. Do they have visible pigment on the skin at that age?
3) Mom is actually a very weird looking dominant pied or a dutch pied? Does anyone know what dutch pied and dominant pied combination looks like? Mom doesn't have white iris rings though, but I wouldn't call them black either... they're just very dark grey.

Here's mom from the sides and front:
https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...psccb5837f.jpg https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps194ddb26.jpg https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps15a9e8f1.jpg

What do you guys think? :)

buddyboy101 11-20-2014 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annip (Post 2561649)
I have a dominant pied male and recessive pied female breeding at the moment. I know that dad is split to greywing and that neither of his parents were recessive pied, but I realize the gene can hide for generations..

Three babies are old enough to see pigmentation in the wings and shoulders (11, 9 and 7 days) but don't have feathers yet. I know I will eventually be able to see more, but I just love to learn and wonder about these things and I must admit I'm a little impatient also. :rolleyes:

Oldest baby is very clearly a pied. It has pigment on both shoulders, but none in the wings. Other shoulder has a clearly larger spot than the other, which I'm thinking is not that typical for a dominant pied though? Or is it? The father is very symmetrical and so have been all other dominant pieds I've seen. I know to look for the chest band and other usual markings once it grows though. :)

Second baby is clearly non-pied. And probably opaline since it seems to have a bright white down. No big mysteries there.

But the third baby is a bit odd. It has no pigmentation on the skin whatsoever. There might be a teeny tiny spot on the other wing (just at the tip) and if so, it's only one or two feathers (compared to pied cockatiels that I have more experience on).

Now I have a few options:
1) Dad is actually split to recessive pied and baby number 3 is a combination of both. (I'm guessing this is the most likely option..)
2) Baby number three is a greywing. Do they have visible pigment on the skin at that age?
3) Mom is actually a very weird looking dominant pied or a dutch pied? Does anyone know what dutch pied and dominant pied combination looks like? Mom doesn't have white iris rings though, but I wouldn't call them black either... they're just very dark grey.

Here's mom from the sides and front:
https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...psccb5837f.jpg https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps194ddb26.jpg https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps15a9e8f1.jpg

What do you guys think? :)

The mom looks like a recessive pied to me. Here is a picture of a young greywing dominant pied chick getting fed by it's mom. I wonder if the pigment on his wing is similar to what you are seeing in your chick. If your male is not split recessive pied you should expect normals and dominant pied chicks
https://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...psffd23aa3.jpg

CuteLittleBirdies 11-20-2014 05:04 PM

Mom is a recessive pied, but dominant pieds can and often do have un-uniform pied markings. The best indication of what the chicks are will be the markings themselves :)

Can you post some pictures of the chicks in question? If so it will be much easier to help :)

annip 11-20-2014 05:50 PM

5 Attachment(s)
They are still very young, but I attached a few. The best signs (for me) are still not visible, but your experience might help to spot things already? :)

The third one has a few tiny dark spots in the wings and I'm guessing (by seeing only pied cockatiel babies before) it'll have a few dark flights here and there, but probably only 1-3 per wing. It doesn't seem to have any pigment on it's shoulders though.

The oldest is very nicely showing you it's wings in the one photo and the markings are quite easy to spot there. :) It also seems to be a goldenface (as it can't be green and has a yellow shade). If uniform markings are normal for dominant pieds as well, it's probably a SF dominant pied. :) The third baby is more confusing as it's probably going to be nearly white.

EDIT: Nest pics are from today, others from tuesday (1st and 3rd baby).

Vargur 11-21-2014 06:13 AM

Are talking about them being pink (patches) on the wings etc.?

then they are pied :)

annip 12-11-2014 02:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
The two pieds now. Both have the dominant pied band, but otherwise don't look like typical dominant pieds to me. Or do they? Older one is the opaline pied and younger one non-opaline.

Any guesses about their body color also? Both are goldenface and options are kobalt, mauve, grey and violet (plus combinations) and I'm not completely sure what they look like because of the yellow wash.

(I'll try to take a few more in a better lighting.)

JWKnight 12-11-2014 03:00 PM

212 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by annip (Post 2610890)
The two pieds now. Both have the dominant pied band, but otherwise don't look like typical dominant pieds to me. Or do they? Older one is the opaline pied and younger one non-opaline.

Any guesses about their body color also? Both are goldenface and options are kobalt, mauve, grey and violet (plus combinations) and I'm not completely sure what they look like because of the yellow wash.

(I'll try to take a few more in a better lighting.)

With the strong light on them I can't really tell for sure...

But the left one in the second picture looks like a Double Factor Dominant pied to me.

annip 12-11-2014 05:05 PM

4 Attachment(s)
That's the weird thing - as mom isn't dominant pied, it couldn't be a double factor.

Got my better camera recharged and took a few more pictures. I don't know why I thought they both have the dominant pied band as the non-opaline one clearly has more like the recessive pied belly. Could it be he's both?

tonic 12-12-2014 03:58 AM

They could be a combination of Dominant and Recessive Pied if Dad is split for Rec pied.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © 2000- 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2006 - , 2403 Networks LLC. All rights reserved.