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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.
Thread Description:Chick Mutations

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  #1  
Old 11-30-2014, 10:22 AM
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Default This is where I'm stumped

Hi all !

I'm going to first give you the "Cole's Notes" for this thread. It's regarding my two new baby chicks, in case you haven't seen my breeding journal here.

https://talkbudgies.com/breeding-jour...e-parents.html

First, the parents.

Mother - Violet, Cinnamon, Rec. Pied


Father - Goldenface II, Sky Blue, Opaline, Spangle




And Here are their new chicks. This is where I get confused.

Chick #1 looks like a Skyblue Opaline Spangle. But where is the Golden face II ? I thought that Goldenface II was a dominant trait? So shouldn't it show up in all of the chicks? And is it safe to assume that this chick is female, since it's visually Opaline?




And this is chick #2. This is where things get weird. LOL. To me, this chick looks like it has the Goldenface II, and this chick looks Rec. Pied!? I was NOT expecting that! Rec. pied shouldn't have shown up in any of these chicks....Unless dad is split for it? And I just checked, dad DOES have iris rings, so there was no indication of him hiding this mutation.





I know I'm not the best at mutations, but I thought I had a clear picture of what these chicks should have been, and here they are, BOTH of them throwing me for a loop! LOL.

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  #2  
Old 11-30-2014, 12:58 PM
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Im going to take a go at this.
The hen to me looks like a op violet cin mauve Fallow Dom pied with some rec pied markings on the right side or is a poor marked Dom pied.
Dad op spangle golden face or type 11 yellow face...can't tell on my comp.
So chick #1 Opaline spangle
chick #2 Opaline Dom pied
Thinking both are cobalt with or with out violet
Even Golden face to Golden face dose not give you all visual Golden face.
My explanation in the short.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:16 PM
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When we talk about genetics we talk about the known part of it. Suggestions and references are made accordingly that is Normal x Normal = Normal everybody Suggest that.

Every breeder knows that when breeding normal some time Ino or Cinnamon Female appears but nobody suggest that Normal x Normal = May be Ino or Cinnamon Female.

I love the words of most knowledgeable and senior breeder Jo Ann when she mentioned “Grace of God” and said “She sits there and enjoy the appearance of odd chick”. To me this is the beauty of budgie breeding.

I got my first Cinnamon Male and Yellowface from normal.
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:36 PM
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Both parents are opaline.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:13 PM
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Okay,my thoughts....

Golden Face is dominant. That means that if a bird has even a single GF gene it will be Golden Face. Your male is sf Golden Face (only has one GF gene) so he will either pass on his GF gene or his non-Golden Face gene. So, your first chick got the non-GF gene and so isn't a GF.

If the second chick is recessive pied then you are correct in the male being split for it. Lets see how it looks once its feathered up more.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango55 View Post
Im going to take a go at this.
The hen to me looks like a op violet cin mauve Fallow Dom pied with some rec pied markings on the right side or is a poor marked Dom pied.
Dad op spangle golden face or type 11 yellow face...can't tell on my comp.
So chick #1 Opaline spangle
chick #2 Opaline Dom pied
Thinking both are cobalt with or with out violet
Even Golden face to Golden face dose not give you all visual Golden face.
My explanation in the short.
I wish the mother was a Fallow. Unfortunately, she's not (I originally thought she was when I first bought her...) It's the flash that is making her eye red in the picture.

Lindsey had ID'd her as a Rec. Pied. as well when I first got her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonic View Post
Okay,my thoughts....

Golden Face is dominant. That means that if a bird has even a single GF gene it will be Golden Face. Your male is sf Golden Face (only has one GF gene) so he will either pass on his GF gene or his non-Golden Face gene. So, your first chick got the non-GF gene and so isn't a GF.

If the second chick is recessive pied then you are correct in the male being split for it. Lets see how it looks once its feathered up more.
Thank you! I did some more reading on Lindsey's website about GF genes. I was sure that it was Dominant and would be passed on no matter what. Turns out I was wrong. It IS possible for it not to be passed on to the chicks.

So much to learn!
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoukieBear View Post
Thank you! I did some more reading on Lindsey's website about GF genes. I was sure that it was Dominant and would be passed on no matter what. Turns out I was wrong. It IS possible for it not to be passed on to the chicks.
Thats right . As there are 2 copies of each gene he would need to be df for all chicks to receive a GF gene. As he is sf sometimes he will pass on the GF gene and at others he will pass on the not GF gene.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:52 PM
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If the Fathers parents, one was goldenface and one was not, he's split golden faced... which is why he can pass on a gene that doesn't contain GF... As it seems is his case. However, if he passes on the goldenface gene, the chick will be goldenfaced because it is dominant.

Pretty chicks
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:23 PM
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Ok, I'm about to throw a wrench into everything.

The Genetics Calculator....how we all love and loath this thing. For the Goldenface mutations, there's only one selection. There's no SF or DF options. Why is that?

So needless to say, when I select my only option for Goldenface, all of the chick outcomes are Goldenface as well.

And another wrench.... If I select Opaline for BOTH parents, (because even Lindsey said that the mother cold be Opaline) Opaline will also show up in the male chicks. So, chick #1 could also be a male.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoukieBear View Post
Ok, I'm about to throw a wrench into everything.

The Genetics Calculator....how we all love and loath this thing. For the Goldenface mutations, there's only one selection. There's no SF or DF options. Why is that?

So needless to say, when I select my only option for Goldenface, all of the chick outcomes are Goldenface as well.

And another wrench.... If I select Opaline for BOTH parents, (because even Lindsey said that the mother cold be Opaline) Opaline will also show up in the male chicks. So, chick #1 could also be a male.
The Opaline thing you are right about, with two Opaline parents you will get all Opaline chicks, if only the Dad is Opaline then you can only get Opaline hen chicks - but I think the Mum is likely Opaline so the chicks could be girls or boys.

As far as the gene calc goes. If you only select GF you are selecting df GF. If you want sf you need to select Gf and blue. GF is a mutation of the blue gene so if you have only one of them as GF they other will be blue. You could actually say he is GF/blue but usually we don't bother even though it would probably make things clearer!

Make any sense at all?
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