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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2016, 02:50 PM
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hi
i want to know hagoromo budgie
if we pair hagoromo with hagoromo then 100 % will b hagoromo birds? or this is also like crested breed like some full crest some half some crest-bred

and one more point

if we have hagoromo male and normal female budgie what will b chicks expectation?>

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  #2  
Old 04-23-2016, 01:01 AM
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Crested and hagoromo budgies apparently are in possession of a very strange gene, which, although autosomal dominant, only acts dominant in certain cases. If you have a double factor, it will be visual, but if you have a single factor, although it still has the dominant gene, it only will show the gene 15-20% of the time. So you could have a bird that visually looks normal but actually is SF.

Apparently, the best way to breed for one with best possibility is to take a known DF (either from two visual parents, or with very noticeable feather) and breed it with a SF hagoromo, or a normal, both of which should be the result of hagoromo parents and both which are indistinguishable from one another as the gene appears to be lacking entirely if the SF does not express the visual trait, much like the normal offspring of a SF and SF, which could be a normal.

Basically any chick from a visual pair who doesn't show a visual trait could have one gene, making them SF, or zero, making them genetically as well as visually normal, but unless you knew the exact genetics of the parents it would be almost impossible to tell.
Although you could breed two hagoromo budgies together, by breeding it with a visual normal it cleans up the genetics a bit so it's not as cluttered, similar to the reason you don't breed two inos together.

However, both parings will yield crested budgies, DF x DF and DF x SF. With a visual male and a normal female, all the chicks will be either single factor or not have the gene at all. Technically, if the father is DF, all chicks will be SF by default, but unless you know the father's lineage that's impossible to tell.

Because the gene only shows up sometimes even though it is dominant, you could get all SF chicks and none of them would ever show the trait. The only way to know if a chick is SF or normal when they don't show the trait is to breed them in the future with a normal and observe if they pass on the gene.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlingWings View Post
Crested and hagoromo budgies apparently are in possession of a very strange gene, which, although autosomal dominant, only acts dominant in certain cases. If you have a double factor, it will be visual, but if you have a single factor, although it still has the dominant gene, it only will show the gene 15-20% of the time. So you could have a bird that visually looks normal but actually is SF.

Apparently, the best way to breed for one with best possibility is to take a known DF (either from two visual parents, or with very noticeable feather) and breed it with a SF hagoromo, or a normal, both of which should be the result of hagoromo parents and both which are indistinguishable from one another as the gene appears to be lacking entirely if the SF does not express the visual trait, much like the normal offspring of a SF and SF, which could be a normal.

Basically any chick from a visual pair who doesn't show a visual trait could have one gene, making them SF, or zero, making them genetically as well as visually normal, but unless you knew the exact genetics of the parents it would be almost impossible to tell.
Although you could breed two hagoromo budgies together, by breeding it with a visual normal it cleans up the genetics a bit so it's not as cluttered, similar to the reason you don't breed two inos together.

However, both parings will yield crested budgies, DF x DF and DF x SF. With a visual male and a normal female, all the chicks will be either single factor or not have the gene at all. Technically, if the father is DF, all chicks will be SF by default, but unless you know the father's lineage that's impossible to tell.

Because the gene only shows up sometimes even though it is dominant, you could get all SF chicks and none of them would ever show the trait. The only way to know if a chick is SF or normal when they don't show the trait is to breed them in the future with a normal and observe if they pass on the gene.
so must gens play a role in that birds
if i have single hagoromo budgie pair with any bird i can get visually hagoromo birds ( some birds ) in that pair..
and what if i pair both hagoromo then still not 100 % sure all chicks will b hagoromo...
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:45 PM
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If you know for sure that the hagoromo you have is double factor, then yes, it is possible to get some visual hagoromo chicks from the pairing with a normal budgie. However, if he is only single factor, even though you still can get some visuals, the odds are greatly reduced due to the irregularity of the gene.

Yes, you're right, even if you pair two hagoromo budgies there is not 100% certainty all chicks will exhibit the trait!
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlingWings View Post
If you know for sure that the hagoromo you have is double factor, then yes, it is possible to get some visual hagoromo chicks from the pairing with a normal budgie. However, if he is only single factor, even though you still can get some visuals, the odds are greatly reduced due to the irregularity of the gene.

Yes, you're right, even if you pair two hagoromo budgies there is not 100% certainty all chicks will exhibit the trait!
thanks for reply
i must have two hagoromo birds which is double factor ( both parents are hagoromo)
then my chances will b bright to have visual hagoromo from that pair?

and can hagoromo budgie produce crested birds? or just hagormo or not hagormo birds?
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:45 AM
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I absolutely agree with Starlingwings' comments.

I just have to add that pairing DF to DF is not recommended. Crested budgies possess a certain 'lethal gene' which can occur in such pairings substantially increasing DIS and chick mortality.
Your best bet is to breed DF to SF or DF to 'crest breds'(crest breds are visually normal looking chicks having both parents as crested) for a good chance of getting many crested chicks while keeping the risks low.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:30 PM
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Vinay has added a very good point, thanks for that

Crestbred birds (which are SF birds who do or do not show the visual trait) are the best option for the healthiest chicks
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinay View Post
I absolutely agree with Starlingwings' comments.

I just have to add that pairing DF to DF is not recommended. Crested budgies possess a certain 'lethal gene' which can occur in such pairings substantially increasing DIS and chick mortality.
Your best bet is to breed DF to SF or DF to 'crest breds'(crest breds are visually normal looking chicks having both parents as crested) for a good chance of getting many crested chicks while keeping the risks low.
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Originally Posted by StarlingWings View Post
Vinay has added a very good point, thanks for that

Crestbred birds (which are SF birds who do or do not show the visual trait) are the best option for the healthiest chicks
so i have to buy one hagoromo df chicks and one tuft chick and then i have some baby birds from that pairs hagormo and some normal or crested birds?
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:12 AM
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If you can find a DF hagoromo, you can pair it with a normal and still get visuals. Two "crestbred" birds, a DF hagoromo and a crestbred, or one crestbred and a normal can also yield visual chicks.

Just avoid DF pairings to be safe
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:14 AM
vinay (Vinay)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shani View Post
so i have to buy one hagoromo df chicks and one tuft chick and then i have some baby birds from that pairs hagormo and some normal or crested birds?
Hagoromos are just another variety of normal crests which have been selectively bred to look that way. They are not the double factor form of normal tufts. A hagoromo could be single/DF . The only way to know for sure if you actually manage to speak with the breeder and if he/she keeps meticulous records.

Same thing with tufted birds. Most full circle crests are double factors and most simple tufted birds are single factors but it is not guaranteed. A simple tufted bird could very well be DF.

There is no 100% way of being sure visually for SF/DF with the crested birds.
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