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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:07 PM
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Default You won't believe this

So these are Cozette (albino) and Churchill's (english grey notmal) babies. Yep! Apparently he is not a double factor grey after all. This time they had 6 babies and all of them look different from each other. What can we deduce this pair are split to based on these babies?

I an calling the city names A-F based on birth order. So in the pics they are as follows:

1. Albany: what mutation? he looks like a dark blue in the pics below.
2. Boston: normal grey male
3. Cambridge: grey opaline - assumed female
4. Dallas: sky blue normal male?
5. Essen: cinnamon, opaline, xxx violet?? what mutation is this? she looks violet in some spots and sky in others so almost iridescent. where is the violet gene coming from?
6. Fallon: cinnamon grey normals female

(pic order of appearance: Pics 1 and 2 are the front and back sides of Boston, Cambridge, Dallas, and Essen. Pic 3 is a close up of Essen. Pic 4 is the youngest baby, Fallon. Pic 5 is the oldest baby Albany. The final 2 pics are of my English hen Darby for comparison against Essen, mutation wise.)

What do you guys think? I was also wondering, how is Essen different than my English Hen Darby (not related to Essen)? Both are violet opaline and cinnamon but they look different from each other. I have never seen a bird that looks kinda iridescent like Essen. The last 2 pics are Darby. I am curious how they are different mutation wise. Darby is solid purple in appearance with darker cheek patches. I hope they come thru well in the pics. Are these two mutations common?
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Last edited by Cozette; 05-24-2016 at 01:38 PM. Reason: clarification
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:29 PM
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I don't know the genetics questions, but wow this clutch sure is beautiful ! Interesting how their last clutch were all grays, now this! Congratulations.

I'm sort of confused... The ones on the basket handle look like different ones than the separate pics They're all adorable, but who's who? lol
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RavensGryf View Post
I don't know the genetics questions, but wow this clutch sure is beautiful ! Interesting how their last clutch were all grays, now this! Congratulations.

I'm sort of confused... The ones on the basket handle look like different ones than the separate pics They're all adorable, but who's who? lol
Sorry for the confusion. Pics 1 and 2 are the front and back sides of Boston, Cambridge, Dallas, and Essen. Pic 3 is a close up of Essen. Pic 4 is the youngest baby, Fallon. Pic 5 is the oldest baby Albany. The final 2 pics are of my English hen Darby for comparison against Essen, mutation wise.
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  #4  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:25 PM
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Albany looks like a Cobalt Normal
Boston looks like a Normal Grey
Cambridge looks to be a Grey Opaline
Dallas looks like a Skyblue Normal
Essen is a Cinnamon Opaline and I am going to guess Skyblue Violet. THe Violet could have come from either parent as it wouldn't show on the Ino and can be tricky to pick in some Greys. Coming from the Ino make the most sense though.
Fallon looks like a Grey Cinnamon Normal

Pretty much just like you said! As far as what the parents are split for, you can tell that the Dad is split Cinnamon, and the Cinnamons are hens. The Opaline is not so straight forward as the Dad must be split but the Mum could also be Opaline. If the Opalines are all female the chances of it just being the Dad are higher, but not proof from such a small number of birds, it could just have been chance. If you get any male Opalines then you know Mum is Opaline also.

I would guess that Darby is Violet Cobalt rather than Skyblue and so her violet shows more strongly. Otherwise, they will look more similar once the chick has its adult feathers and colour.

Very lovely!
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tonic View Post
Albany looks like a Cobalt Normal
Boston looks like a Normal Grey
Cambridge looks to be a Grey Opaline
Dallas looks like a Skyblue Normal
Essen is a Cinnamon Opaline and I am going to guess Skyblue Violet. THe Violet could have come from either parent as it wouldn't show on the Ino and can be tricky to pick in some Greys. Coming from the Ino make the most sense though.
Fallon looks like a Grey Cinnamon Normal

Pretty much just like you said! As far as what the parents are split for, you can tell that the Dad is split Cinnamon, and the Cinnamons are hens. The Opaline is not so straight forward as the Dad must be split but the Mum could also be Opaline. If the Opalines are all female the chances of it just being the Dad are higher, but not proof from such a small number of birds, it could just have been chance. If you get any male Opalines then you know Mum is Opaline also.

I would guess that Darby is Violet Cobalt rather than Skyblue and so her violet shows more strongly. Otherwise, they will look more similar once the chick has its adult feathers and colour.

Very lovely!
Thank you! Can I ask how violet works? It can be present on top of another color right?

Also, cobalt is a sky blue with one dark factor? So I am assuming then that dad is also split to blue?

How can an albino mask violet if it is codominant?

Also is it possible all this could come from Dad? I mean how many splits can one bird have haha.

Are cinnamon opaline cobalt violets or cinnamon opaline sky blue violets uncommon? I have never seen them in person until my own.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:43 PM
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all I can say is wow.I love there mutation and color pattern a lot.thanks so much for sharing the lovely photos.blessings always.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:08 PM
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What a colorful clutch
I can't be of any help since I am trying but can't seem to get the hang of genetics and colors yet, though. It fascinates me.
Love how you have a theme for each clutch. I did the same with my flock.
Congratulations on such pretty babies!
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cozette View Post
Thank you! Can I ask how violet works? It can be present on top of another color right?

Also, cobalt is a sky blue with one dark factor? So I am assuming then that dad is also split to blue?

How can an albino mask violet if it is codominant?

Also is it possible all this could come from Dad? I mean how many splits can one bird have haha.

Are cinnamon opaline cobalt violets or cinnamon opaline sky blue violets uncommon? I have never seen them in person until my own.
Violet, works just like Grey. They are both colour adding genes rather than actual colour genes. So with Violet you have the base colour then Violet adds depth and the violet tint. In Cobalt this results in what are referred to as Visual Violets as it produces the strong violet colour. In Skyblues and Mauves it tends to deepen the blue and sometimes as a violet tint in places. A double factor is darker than a single factor usually so a df Skyblue Violet can sometimes be quite violet looking whereas a sf Skyblue Violet can look alot liek a pretty Cobalt. Violet is pretty common so will end up with Cinnamon and Opaline just as often as it ends up on other varieties.

Cobalt isn't really Skyblue with a dark gene, though it may help to think of it like that. Skyblue is blue with no dark gene, Cobalt is blue with one dark gene and Mauve is blue with two dark genes. A grey bird is a blue bird with one or two grey genes added, so it can't be split for blue as it is blue! What your blue chicks tell us is that he is single factor grey, so all the chicks got the blue gene and some of them also got the grey gene.

Albino takes all the dark colours out of the bird, except for Cinnamon. So your Ino hen could be a Recessive Pied, Opaline, Spangle, Greywing, Anthracite for all we know, and it wouldn't be visible at all. The genes for the variety is there to be passed on, but you can't see it because the dark colours are missing. However, now that there are some chicks we can see some things that may actually be there. She could be Opaline as there are some Opaline chicks, she's likely to be Violet unless the Dad shows signs of being Violet Grey. She isn't Cinnamon as it would show as light markings on her, so you know that must be coming from Dad. A single budgie can be split for all sorts of things! That is what makes for lovely surprises in breeding.

I hope that makes sense, feel free to point out anywhere I have been confusing!
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tonic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozette View Post
Thank you! Can I ask how violet works? It can be present on top of another color right?

Also, cobalt is a sky blue with one dark factor? So I am assuming then that dad is also split to blue?

How can an albino mask violet if it is codominant?

Also is it possible all this could come from Dad? I mean how many splits can one bird have haha.

Are cinnamon opaline cobalt violets or cinnamon opaline sky blue violets uncommon? I have never seen them in person until my own.
Violet, works just like Grey. They are both colour adding genes rather than actual colour genes. So with Violet you have the base colour then Violet adds depth and the violet tint. In Cobalt this results in what are referred to as Visual Violets as it produces the strong violet colour. In Skyblues and Mauves it tends to deepen the blue and sometimes as a violet tint in places. A double factor is darker than a single factor usually so a df Skyblue Violet can sometimes be quite violet looking whereas a sf Skyblue Violet can look alot liek a pretty Cobalt. Violet is pretty common so will end up with Cinnamon and Opaline just as often as it ends up on other varieties.

Cobalt isn't really Skyblue with a dark gene, though it may help to think of it like that. Skyblue is blue with no dark gene, Cobalt is blue with one dark gene and Mauve is blue with two dark genes. A grey bird is a blue bird with one or two grey genes added, so it can't be split for blue as it is blue! What your blue chicks tell us is that he is single factor grey, so all the chicks got the blue gene and some of them also got the grey gene.

Albino takes all the dark colours out of the bird, except for Cinnamon. So your Ino hen could be a Recessive Pied, Opaline, Spangle, Greywing, Anthracite for all we know, and it wouldn't be visible at all. The genes for the variety is there to be passed on, but you can't see it because the dark colours are missing. However, now that there are some chicks we can see some things that may actually be there. She could be Opaline as there are some Opaline chicks, she's likely to be Violet unless the Dad shows signs of being Violet Grey. She isn't Cinnamon as it would show as light markings on her, so you know that must be coming from Dad. A single budgie can be split for all sorts of things! That is what makes for lovely surprises in breeding.

I hope that makes sense, feel free to point out anywhere I have been confusing!
No that makes a lot of sense. But what are the signs of being a violet grey? This is dad. Does he have the signs?
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:22 AM
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Here is another one of Dad.
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