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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 08-16-2016, 10:10 AM
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Default White Feathers/Frosted Pied

Hi all ! not sure if this a health concern or not, because I've never seen this before.

Tango is NOT moulting. But, he has these white feathers that have appeared on his back and chest. He is not plucking, he is not being picked on by other birds, he's totally normal in every way.

These feathers are not downy feathers poking through either, they are regular feathers that are white. So strange! Is this something that's been seen before?




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  #2  
Old 08-16-2016, 10:47 AM
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Hi, Michelle --

I've never seen that either but it it a beautiful feather effect.
Hopefully one of our other members will have some thoughts on the reason for the feathers to be coming in white.

In the meantime, I'm going to do a bit of research and see if I can find out anything about it for you.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:48 AM
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I can't say that I have ever experienced this personally with my budgies or seen for real in other budgies.
I know with pied budgies there can be variations on the feather colour according to the moults.
Your Tango doesn't seem to be a pied budgie, he has the normal coloured beak and blue feet. I'm also not seeing a pied patch on the back of the head.

Maybe this slight colour disturbance has to do with the golden face gene?
I wouldn't say this is caused by illness or lack of nutrients/nourishment/vitamins. Your flock is on a good diet.
My guess would be an odd case of feather colour disturbance.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aluz View Post
I can't say that I have ever experienced this personally with my budgies or seen for real in other budgies.
I know with pied budgies there can be variations on the feather colour according to the moults.
Your Tango doesn't seem to be a pied budgie, he has the normal coloured beak and blue feet. I'm also not seeing a pied patch on the back of the head.

Maybe this slight colour disturbance has to do with the golden face gene?
I wouldn't say this is caused by illness or lack of nutrients/nourishment/vitamins. Your flock is on a good diet.
My guess would be an odd case of feather colour disturbance.
Surprise! He actually is split for recessive pied. It's hard to tell even in person, but the thump print is very faint, and it has been confirmed by breeding him with Bandit.

With that being said, he's never had these white feathers before, and I highly doubt it's a change because of a molt, since he's around 3 years old now.

Thanks for reassuring me I'll keep doing some research as well.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:17 AM
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If pied is truly in the works as it was proved from breeding, then that would be the best guess for this change in the plumage.
The feathers can very well be affected by some kind of "frosting" effect.
For more detailed info you can look into frosted pied budgies.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:19 AM
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Thanks! looking into it now. Aren't they rare though?
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:28 AM
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They are considered rare, yes.
Most likely on the last moult you didn't notice the feathers had this odd colour.

I have encountered in the past a feather disturbance on one of my budgies.
On his first moult, my Luigi developed some feathers with the "helicopter" pattern on one of his wings. On the next moult, the replacement of the feathers came back normal and up until now I haven't noticed any feather oddities: https://talkbudgies.com/mutations-gen...ter-luigi.html
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:02 PM
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So how cool is that?! You have a "Frosted Pied Budgie"
I love it.

The following post was made on 12/05/11 at 8:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Ann View Post
Hi


Please see www. bugegrigar.co.uk and enter Frosted pied. My Frosted Pied is featured. Frosted Pieds compete in class with clearflight/DutchPieds. World judge and Breeder Dr. Travencheck introduced the Frosted Pied to the US many years ago. My Frosted came in second to his at the ABS show. 12/3/11. If there is no Frosted Pied, a lot of English Budgie judges and breeders are crazy. You can believe what you will But when Didier Mervilide. and Glieb Al- Nassar. Gerald Binks, David Collier, to name a few- All breeders and world judges, agree there is such a thing and the photos of my bird are posted to be seen on the web and labeled as such. These people are the current world authorities plus a lot of others. My bird has been recognized across the US as well as others currently residing in Lousianna, Texas, here in Georgia and Europe probably elsewhere that I am not aware of. Write to Mr Binks. Contact me by PM and I will ask permission to put you in contact with Dr Travencheck, whose aviary I was honored to visit just yesterday.


Believe as you will but Members of BAA, ABS, UK, and Europe and other World breeders will continue to breed and show these wonderful rare/endangered birds. I do not need any ones permission to show this bird as it is, as it was recognized perhaps as much as 40 years ago and introduced to the US. I am a rare breeder. It is my business to be on top of the rare breeds and I am being mentored by a recognized rare breeder here in the US. All of my wins with my Frosted Pied this year are clearly published in the ABS and BAA Journals here in the US. Please do not make Frosted pieds extinct by means of public opinion. The info is on the web. I had to do the research to find it just like anyone else. Do not just believe someone else. Breed one, like I did!
Didier Mervilde spells out the breeding components on clearflight/dutch pieds on his site under Dutch Pieds article.
My bird is considered a good example with good size and markings.

Blessings,

Jo Ann
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Last edited by FaeryBee; 08-16-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:46 PM
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Tango is beautiful!

I agree that it seems to me some sort of frosting effect and I agree it looks lovely
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Old 08-17-2016, 11:20 AM
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Smile White Feathers

Hi. This bird does appear to have the chest and wing white/frosted feathers.
My Frosted Pied, Jack Frost, Was a late bloomer and did not show till after his baby molt, while his sons, Johnny Winter and Stormy Weather showed early. Birds that are split recessive pied will often have just one or two feathers where the large thumb print is usually. Deb referred you to info published here on TB and By Gerald Binks on line. It contains various pictures of the frosting on Jack' s chest and wings. Jack's father was a dark green recessive pied split with no white feathers on the head. This was determined by breeding records. His mother was a white DEC. They produced White DEC hen , 2 green clear flights and Jack. Jack did not show until A judge at Jack's first show at 8 months old, ID him as being listed in the wrong class and explained why. He had mercy on me as a novice and just had Jack placed in the proper class. He went on to take both the rare and novice bench that day and gained his 30 points for grand champion that year. The issue of what is a frosted has been going on for quite a number of years. As there are 4 types of Pied : Recessive/Dominant / Clear Flight/ Dutch, Dutch Frosted/There are certain requirements for each to be met. Recessive does not need any spots but may have full compliment. Cocks have lighter markings than hens. White or yellow body with patches of colors and usually a blue or green color on lower chest and back. Dominant pied must have a band of color like blue or green on the chest and can not have any white spots in the band on the chest. This is important as some dominant pieds with full chest color have been shown as clear flights. The full color chest is a fault on a dominant pied and such birds can not be showed-in Rare Division, no matter how big and beautiful the bird is. The bird could produce chicks with bands in the breeding room- just not take points on the Show bench. Clear Flights have a solid blue/green color -no white spots- on the chest and should have all white flights and tail. While a Dutch pied will have white clouds in the blue /green chest and frosting on wings. To prove a Clear flight or a dutch/dutch frosted. The bird must produce a DEC in the breeding room. A dominant pied cannot do this. The strength of presence of DEC in the breeding history effects when and how much the frosting will show. Both The Dutch and clear flight and also recessive will show variations in color in flights and tail feathers,tail from molt to molt The older the bird gets the better the frosting shows unless you introduce another Dec in the breeding line. The problem with this is that the resulting chicks will be smaller than desired. So a breeder has to continually switch a DEC and a large normal with the frosted to produce frosting and size. David Eburst in Archer Florida , produces beautiful frosted and clear flight that do well on the Show bench. I have retired from active breeding due to illness. our Jack Frost passed away about a year ago. He was not only rare and beautiful but also a wonderful gentle and funny soul who really did not like the show cage and became Jumping Jack Frost at shows.

So , yes, Your bird is showing frosting, but it is showing up later because there is not a strong DEC in his genetic background. Breed him to the largest and best DEC hen you can find to produce more frosted and then in perhaps f3 put your best chicks against a good size normal. You can demonstrate frosting on wings by extending them to take pictures.
Blessings, Jo Ann
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Last edited by Jo Ann; 08-18-2016 at 08:33 AM.
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