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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:57 PM
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Question Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?

Sky blue double factor YF1 normal/split for recessive pied cock x cobalt blue(?) dilute/presumably split for dilute hen produced 4 cobalt blue YF_ babies (2 of which are YF2 after first molt) and 4 cobalt blue YF2 recessive pied babies.

Same sky blue cock x sky blue opaline spangle dominant pied/unknown split hen produced 1 cobalt blue YF_ baby and 1 sky blue YF2 double factor dominant pied baby.

How come 7 out of 8 of the sky blue dad's babies (including one from the sky blue hen) are cobalt blue rather than sky blue?


Last edited by SusanBudgies; 04-07-2009 at 10:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2009, 10:18 PM
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Presumably one parent is a poorly coloured cobalt and not a sky blue as thought.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:50 PM
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Here's:
1. Sky blue cock and cobalt dilute hen.
2. Sky blue cock and cobalt dilute hen with 3 cobalt babies from their first clutch.
3. Sky blue DP hen.
4. Sky blue DP hen with 3 cobalt babies (from sky blue cock and cobalt dilute hen's second clutch).
Attached Thumbnails
Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-120608-1-nibbles-mr.-blue.jpg   Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-020709-6-mr-blue-nibbles-ben-ashley-jerry.jpg   Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-123007-2-noelle-looking.jpg   Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-020909-1-noelle-3-chicks.jpg  

Last edited by SusanBudgies; 04-07-2009 at 11:05 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:41 PM
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Is it at all possible one is actually NOT the parent and that the other parent is another bird?
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:03 AM
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Are you colony breeding?

If you are getting cobalts when they should be sky blues the reason must be either:

The father of the chicks is not the bird you thought
or
You have judged the parents' colours incorrectly

A sky blue mated to a cobalt will produce about half of each shade but it might take several clutches before the numbers even out
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Last edited by nev90; 04-08-2009 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:32 AM
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Thank you all for your responses.

I infer from your remarks it's unlikely a sky blue cock would produce cobalt rather than sky blue babies.

I also want to point out all 10 babies (9 cobalts and 1 sky blue) are YF.

Attached is a picture of the only other candidate father; he's a light green normal (possibly split for opaline). (Could he produce cobalt babies? Could he produce YF babies?) He is bonded with the sky blue dominant pied spangle hen who is the topic of this post and is pictured with the light green.

I highly doubt the light green normal is the father of either hen's babies because:
1. Sky blue cock is bonded with cobalt dilute hen (see first picture).
a. I observed them mating several times before and during hen's first clutch. I never observed light green mating or trying to mate with hen.
b. Hen's first clutch produced 4 cobalts.
c. I observed them mating several times before and during hen's first clutch. I never observed light green mating or trying to mate with hen.
d. Hen's second clutch produced 4 cobalts.

2. Light green cock is bonded with sky blue hen, but he's obese (see second picture).
a. Light green cock is obese (53g) and thus may be infertile.
b. Prior to hen's first clutch, I observed light green trying to mate with her only a few times; but he was too fat and fell off her; thereafter, he preferred to "mate" regularly with a surrogate object.
c. Hen's first clutch was 100% infertile.
d. Hen's second clutch was 100% infertile.
e. Hen's third clutch produced 4 fertile eggs -- 1 cobalt and 1 sky blue and 2 DIS.
f. After hen's third clutch, I observed sky blue cock mate with hen. Thus, it's possible he got to her prior to or during her third clutch, which was unexpectedly fertile.

In short, I can offer a lot of circumstantial evidence proving the sky blue cock is father to both hen's babies.
Attached Thumbnails
Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-120608-1-nibbles-mr.-blue.jpg   Why are babies cobalt blue rather than sky blue?-120608-7-jonah-noelle.jpg  

Last edited by SusanBudgies; 04-08-2009 at 01:01 AM.
  #7  
Old 04-08-2009, 03:36 AM
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No amount of observation of colony bred birds can guarantee the parentage of the chicks.

The yellow face gene can be masked by a green bird. If the yellow face is type 1 it could come from a non-yellow faced bird that is a double factor yellow face

The sky blue cock can produce cobalts mated when mated to a cobalt hen even if she is dilute

Your dominant pied spangle hen looks more cobalt than sky blue in the picture. (A spangles colour is usually brighter than a normals)
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:36 AM
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Very interesting, Nev.

I forgot to mention the sky blue (possibly double factor YF1) normal cock has a pied spot on the back of his head. This is one more reason I'm convinced he and the cobalt dilute hen produced the 4 cobalt YF normals (two of whom show YF2 after first molt) and 4 cobalt YF2 recessive pieds (one of whose body yellow became stronger after first molt). Then again, my conclusion conflicts with your statement a double factor YF1 cannot produce YF2 babies. A real head-scratcher.

I'm also puzzled why one of cobalt dilute hen's cobalt YF2 normal sons has a pied spot (like the sky blue cock). Doesn't he have to be split for dilute, like his mom, as opposed to split for recessive pied?

I took another look at the dom pied hen. Her blue does look a shade between sky blue and cobalt; perhaps she's a cobalt rather than sky blue, as you suggested.

I wish you genetic experts could visit my home and assess my flock yourself; I'm beginning to second-guess my ability to judge coloring (sky blue vs. cobalt; YF1 vs. YF2).

Last edited by SusanBudgies; 04-08-2009 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanBudgies View Post
I'm also puzzled why one of cobalt dilute hen's cobalt YF2 normal sons has a pied spot (like the sky blue cock). Doesn't he have to be split for dilute, like his mom, as opposed to split for recessive pied?
He can be split for both
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:42 PM
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Very interesting, Nev -- thanks!
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