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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2009, 05:18 PM
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Default Double Factor Spangle Question...

I have two birds - which are confusing me a little...

I was under the impression that they were both Double Factor Spangles...

One is all Yellow with black eyes - but after his last moult, I noticed a small patch of green in his leg, and on his breast... (When I say small - I'm talking 3-5 mm)

The other is a all White with black eyes - and the same thing has happened to him, he has a tiny (2-3mm) patch of blue just above his leg... (It's really hard to see on the picture of his abdo - but the patch is just above his left leg)

So my question is - am I wrong on their mutation? Or is this a common occurance in DFS?

Thanks for your help...

Anj
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Last edited by Anj; 04-18-2009 at 06:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2009, 05:34 PM
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I can't really tell from the pictures, but I think it is probably double factor spangle.

D If it is a double factor spangle, their irises in the eyes will lighten with age. If they stay a plum colour throughout its life, then the mutation is dark eyed clear. If their eyes are red, then they are lutino and albino.

I can't really see the eyes in the picture, so that is something you will have to judge. Just remember about the eyes, light is double factor spangle, dark plum is dark eyed clear and red is lutino (yellow) and albino (white).
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:39 PM
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Hey...

Their eyes are black with iris rings - I was under assumption that was what made them DFS, rather than DEC...

Thanks
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:53 PM
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Yep, so in that case they are double factor spangles! Gorgeous ones too
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:41 PM
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They are definitely Double Factor Spangles. It is not uncommon for them to have a flushing of colour around their abdomen. Blue for a white bird and green for a yellow bird. This information is from a Budgie Judge as we had a query about it last year with a bird that was entered into our show. It sometimes comes about with certain breeding. In their case from memory (and that's not good) the bird was carrying 3 double factor spangle genes. I think 1 parent was a double factor spangle and the other was a spangle. We had to have the bird looked at prior to the show so that it was put in the right class just in case the judge doing that section disagreed. It was a novice bird and the judges doing that section are often probationary and don't have as much experience.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:03 PM
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Wow... What great information...

It's always a nice to have confirmation that your budgie's mutation is in fact what you thought it was...

Another question I have... I have my boys matched up with Ino's... Eg. Yellow DFS cock with a lutino hen and White DFS with a lutino hen..

What kind of chicks can I expect from these mutations?

Thanks
Anj
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:07 PM
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50% Single Factor Spangle/Ino Cocks
50% Single Factor Spangle Hens

This is what I would expect from those pairings although a White DFS Cock would be better with an Albino hen.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anj View Post
Wow... What great information...

It's always a nice to have confirmation that your budgie's mutation is in fact what you thought it was...

Another question I have... I have my boys matched up with Ino's... Eg. Yellow DFS cock with a lutino hen and White DFS with a lutino hen..

What kind of chicks can I expect from these mutations?

Thanks
Anj
Yellow DFS cock x Lutino hen =
100% green SF spangle chicks, males being split for ino
If both cock and hen are split for blue, you have a 25% chance of blue chicks, 50% chance of chicks being split for blue, and 25% chance of chicks having no 'blue gene'.

White DFS cock x albino hen
100% blue SF spangle chicks, males being split for ino.


Quote:
In their case from memory (and that's not good) the bird was carrying 3 double factor spangle genes. I think 1 parent was a double factor spangle and the other was a spangle.
Umm, im not sure what you mean by 3 double factor spangle genes? That would mean 6 spangle genes, and a bird only carry one (SF spangle) or 2 (DF spangle).
DF x DF will produce all DF spangle chicks.
SF x DF will produce 50% SF, 50% DF.
SF x SF will produce 25% normals, 50% SF, 25% DF.
SF x normal will produce 50% normal, 50% SF.

In regards to coloured feathers coming through, what Anj described is extremely minimal suffusion. Early DF spangles had a chest 'bib', in other words their chest was suffused with colour. This was for some stupid reason considered a show fault, and birds with no suffusion were declared the ideal. So now we usually have DF spangles that are in colour identical to ino's and DEC's, which i think is stupid because having a bib would make them stand out. And i have to say i find the bib a beautiful thing. I'll have to go find a picture of it to show you.

Edit: Here is a picture of a show DF spangle that has won top awards even with the suffused bib (hooray!). This picture and bird belong to splat, who's post can be found HERE

Last edited by Guthwulf; 04-18-2009 at 10:04 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-18-2009, 09:06 PM
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Thanks Dean. I am not really up on DFS as I mainly breed normals, Dominant Pied, Opalines and Cinnamons. I have a few spangles but I only use them to breed SF Spangles and not DF. Personally I prefer SF to DF as I think the wing markings are lovely. But my big soft spot is for Cinnamons, followed by Dom. Pieds.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:51 PM
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Dean...

Thanks for all the information - I agree with you, the DFS above iHe is very handsome indeed...

I made a little typo above... I have paired my White DSF with an albino - not a lutino like I typed...

So... I wouldn't necessarily have thought that my beautiful yellow DFS cock and my lutino hen would produce green birds... Guess I would need to find an Ino cock to pair her with, so that I get more Ino's...

Thanks for all the info...

You are a very knowledgable budgie expert Dean - thanks for putting up with my novice questions!!

And Kate - thanks for all your imput too...
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