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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 12-15-2016, 11:13 AM
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Default What mutation is my parakeet?

So this is our newest little guy, Tundra. At least i think it's a boy- maybe you guys can clear that up for me. He's only 4 months old, cere rather pink, so am I correct in thinking this is a boy? Our last boy's cere was identical at this age. I am under the impression girls are more white at 4 months in most mutations.

Anyway, I digress. I was wondering two things:
1) what is this guys mutation? Is he a dominant SF pied? He has infinitesimal watered down yellow above cere and almost undetectable highlights of yellow on wings too. But you can't see unless light hits the right way.

2) If I breed him will 100% of the babies look like him then if he is dominant? Will any of the mother show through?








Thanks so much!

Midori


Last edited by midoritori; 12-15-2016 at 11:23 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2016, 11:21 AM
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Your Tundra is a sky blue yellow face type II (the first moult will confirm if it's type I or II) single factor dominant pied budgie. He is a male.

I don't know what his potential mate looks like, but if she is a normal (non-pied) budgie, then you can get single factor dominant pied and normal chicks. You won't have 100% of dominant pied chicks. And depending on the hidden genes both parents could be carrying, you could hypothetically have an unexpected surprise.

Before taking the breeding route and in order to do so more safely, a person should have a very good grasp of the species (this comes with real life experience in budgie ownership) and to do the required research into the subject.

The decision to breed comes with a whole lot of responsibility and commitment, the lives of the breeding pair(s) and the chicks are depending on you and the response you give if/when faced with adversity.
Things like being able to tell if your breeding pair is in good health and top physical condition to go through breeding; when a hen is expecting an egg or if she is showing the first signs of being egg bound; when a chick is having developmental problems, not being fed or showing signs of dehydration;
when there is aggression, abandonment and neglect of the chicks and it's solely up to you to feed and raise the chicks. The ability to detect early on and solve these issues can truly make a difference on the outcome of your breeding journey.

Please read this link: https://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breedi...s-new-old.html
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2016, 12:57 PM
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Hello

Thank you for your answer!

Rest assured I am taking this very seriously. My plan is to research this for the next year before I would even consider it. I plan to add a female or two but house them seperate from boys and hand tame them. We have a bit of experience with Tiki, our 2 year old boy but I still have MUCH to learn. With the new additions (we only have added Tundra so far) I am going to make sure that Tundra and new additions are eating healthfully, tame with good personalitities, robust and at least 1 year + before i would consider breeding. I also need to learn so so much. I will not go into breeding without the proper reading

I am asking about his colors now, as I decide to add a girl or two, as I'd like to know what colors would even come through.

I am thinking about all white with black eyes
All yellow with black eyes
Or just another one similar to him
True rainbow color

With the all white or all yellow, are these dominant colors? What percentage of babies could pop out all yellow or all white? I tried looking at these charts: Budgie Pairing Expectations - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

Would it be 50/50 roughly or would his dominant swallow up theirs all yellow or all white genes?

Furthermore, for all yellow/ all white: is this dominant? Or recessive? I did bio in collage and if i know what i'm dealing with more I could better understand. Still so much to learn!
At anyrate, I still wasn't sure what the outcome would be. As I said, I am trying to plan colors way ahead of time as i plan to have a small intimate number of these guys (I.e no more than 4 - 6) so I want to make sure I get the appropriate colors.

Thanks so much and I'm glad you checked in to make sure I was researching before hand

Also, I know this is a dumb question possibly - but what is pied? Is it any parakeet that is two toned? Can it be yellow/ green or blue white? Any two toned colors = pied?

Thanks!

So I was researching a bit about his mutation and came across this:

"The pied patch that is generally only on the back of the head with a sf dominant pied usually extends down and/or around the head, across the ear and cheeks on one or both sides on a df dominant pied."

Does that mean he's DF instead of SF as his white patch goes around his neck on one side?

Help To Identify Double Factor Dominant Pied Budgies - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

Last edited by Therm; 12-15-2016 at 05:22 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2016, 05:09 PM
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Default Help me understand df and sf pied genetics

Hello.

So here is our boy.




If someday he were bred (and yes, I will be researching this carefully over the next year) with a normal green parakeet would babies that are SF / DF pied be just blue and white? Or could they be yellow and green sf or df pied? Trying to understand if breeding with this sky blue DF pied will make only blue and white or would it affect the genes in a way in which you could get green/ yellow pied babies. I'm not sure how this works

Thanks!
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Old 12-15-2016, 05:28 PM
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I have combined your latest thread with the one created a few hours ago, since the topic is the same.

Your budgie is clearly a single factor dominant pied.
There are 3 different mutations in which budgies can be all white or all yellow.
That includes the Ino variety where albino (red-eyed white plumage) and lutino (red-eyed yellow plumage), the white based or yellow based dark-eyed clears (black eyes, no irises) and the white based or yellow based double factor spangles.
With your current budgie the chance for you to get an all white or all yellow chick would be quite slim. The only way would be if he were hiding the Ino gene and that way you could have an albino or lutino female (if mother is green series).

With the pairing you have mentioned, and if the green normal were split for blue, then you could have both yellow based, green series chicks and white based blue series chicks. Some would be single factor dominant pied like the father while others would be normals like the mother.
Some chicks can also inherit the yellow face gene from the father and this is regardless if they are green series or blue series.
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Last edited by aluz; 12-15-2016 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Fixing typo
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Old 12-15-2016, 05:55 PM
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Thanks so much for your answer!

When you say if mother is "split for blue" what does this mean? A parent was perhaps blue for her?

If she is not split for blue, just a regular green parakeet through and through would all kids be yellow and green colors then? Some pied some normal but not blue/white?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions!
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:06 PM
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Being split means the budgie is hiding a given gene.
If one of the parents of this green budgie is a visual blue, then you will know for certain that she is carrying the blue gene.
If the potential green budgie isn't split for blue then all chicks will be yellow based (green series) and they will all necessarily be split for blue from their father Tundra.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2016, 05:03 PM
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Tundra is a beautiful boy! Congratulations!

Aluz has answered your questions wonderfully.

One thing that also may help in understanding dominant genes is this:

Each bird can have any combination of either one, two, or no genes that code for a trait.

In the case of SF dominant pied, it indicates the bird has a single factor, that is, one dominant pied gene. Because the trait is dominant, it appears as SF dominant pied when the bird has one factor and DF dominant pied when the bird has two.

Each parent passes only one chromosome with the trait on it to its offspring because the other parent supplies the other. So, the chicks have a 50% chance of getting either the one dominant pied gene or no pied gene (normal).

Does that make sense?

EDIT: I've written an article that will explain it further in depth

https://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breedi...-all-mean.html
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Last edited by StarlingWings; 12-16-2016 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:29 PM
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Starling Wings- That is exactly what I wanted to know! That was so very helpful


I was just trying to understand the Punnett squares today with the Os, 1s, and 2s. If he is a 0 (because he is sky blue) his parents were either:
both 0s
both 1s (and he was one the 25% that came out 0s)
Or one was a 1 and one a 0.

Do I have this right?

That's pretty neat. So I guess if you had a 2 (as in color level) DF dominant pied and a 0 DF dominant pied, all would be pied 1 level. Is this right then?

I'm getting my nerd on here! lol

Thanks for the article link! I will definitely have a read
  #10  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:11 PM
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Yes, it sounds like you are getting the hang of how the dark genes are inherited!
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