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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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Old 09-05-2018, 03:57 PM
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Default Improving conformation on fancy colored birds

There is a breeder in the area who has some very fun colors but conformation needs improvement. If I bred a normal green or blue bird with good conformation to them would those colors be dominant and erase the fun colors ?

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Old 09-06-2018, 05:21 AM
tonic (Toni)
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We would need to know what the colours were to tell you which are dominant or recessive, or what the chicks may turn out like.

Do you mean conformation as you prefer them to be more show budgie like? Or are there actual conformation problems? It is likely any physical problems would be passed on if not int he first generation but later down the track.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:56 AM
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The purpose of the forum is to promote best practices in the care and well-being of budgies.
My concern is that many of your previous threads were regarding problems you had in breeding with previous clutches resulting in panicky postings. Why do you feel the need to breed your birds?

Before breeding any species, it is important to learn as much about the animals, their personalities and the best practices to follow for responsible and ethical breeding prior to making the commitment to take on the responsibility. This requires extensive research and an openness to continual learning.


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Old 09-06-2018, 01:36 PM
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Hi there,

Toni is right, the correct term is "mutation" if you're talking about colors, not "conformation".

However, it doesn't seem like you should even be thinking about mutations. Based on your past threads, you don't have the experience to be breeding budgies. It is fun to see the different colors that budgies can be but breeding your budgies without experience is a recipe for disaster (as you've experienced several times before).

Why don't you just enjoy your budgies without trying to breed them??
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:56 PM
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Yes I know that the correct term is mutation, I was overtired and having a brain mis-fire.
Those previous posts were from how long ago? Don't we all have to start somewhere.
Anyhow, not to worry. I was able to contact Gary Hicken who has some of the best birds out there. He was able to answer my question.He will be selling me some nice normal green birds next month and is very supportive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonic View Post
We would need to know what the colours were to tell you which are dominant or recessive, or what the chicks may turn out like.

Do you mean conformation as you prefer them to be more show budgie like? Or are there actual conformation problems? It is likely any physical problems would be passed on if not int he first generation but later down the track.
No, I mean conformation. There are breeders who breed only for color and as a result sacrifice conformation and ofttimes overall health of an animal. At which point it is best, if you want to continue to work with that line, to bring in new genetics, ie a normal green budgie to strengthen future generations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaeryBee View Post


The purpose of the forum is to promote best practices in the care and well-being of budgies.
My concern is that many of your previous threads were regarding problems you had in breeding with previous clutches resulting in panicky postings.

Why do you feel the need to breed your birds?

Before breeding any species, it is important to learn as much about the animals, their personalities and the best practices to follow for responsible and ethical breeding prior to making the commitment to take on the responsibility. This requires extensive research and an openness to continual learning.


A Heartfelt Plea to All Members
Guidance regarding Breeding Advice Threads
Did you check the dates on my previous posts? That was 5 years ago when I was first starting out. Since then I have bred and handfed many babies, English budgies, tiels, parrotlets, linnies and canaries. I have handfed everything from tiny newborn budgies up to a CAG. I took a break for awhile from budgies and am getting back into them.

Last edited by FaeryBee; 09-06-2018 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:35 AM
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In my experience those breeding for colour have birds that are more like the wild type, which is often the strongest and healthiest type. I realise that some people like the shape and conformation of show budgies more than the alternative, but some people like it the other way also.

Show birds are very nice looking but often have more issues with health, breeding issues etc. They need a bit more care in their diet due to the increased feather and body size also. Feather cysts are an example of something rarely found in pet type budgies but common in show budgies due to the increased feather size and quantity.

Don't get me wrong, I really like show budgies but they do require more input to keep than the standard colour budgies. They have lost some of the features that make the wild type budgies so very hardy.

Any breeder, regardless of show or colour, can ignore physical health and breed poorer birds as a result. Just as any breeder can aim to increase well being and health. I don't think it comes down to colour versus show breeding.

However, I have noticed that many show breeders are disparaging of colour breeders, and I imagine the same happens the other way, but I don't see it so much.
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonic View Post
In my experience those breeding for colour have birds that are more like the wild type, which is often the strongest and healthiest type. I realise that some people like the shape and conformation of show budgies more than the alternative, but some people like it the other way also.

Show birds are very nice looking but often have more issues with health, breeding issues etc. They need a bit more care in their diet due to the increased feather and body size also. Feather cysts are an example of something rarely found in pet type budgies but common in show budgies due to the increased feather size and quantity.

Don't get me wrong, I really like show budgies but they do require more input to keep than the standard colour budgies. They have lost some of the features that make the wild type budgies so very hardy.

Any breeder, regardless of show or colour, can ignore physical health and breed poorer birds as a result. Just as any breeder can aim to increase well being and health. I don't think it comes down to colour versus show breeding.

However, I have noticed that many show breeders are disparaging of colour breeders, and I imagine the same happens the other way, but I don't see it so much.
My concern is that if someone breeds specifically for colour that they do not take the whole bird and its health into consideration. They may just continue breeding mutation to mutation thereby decreasing size and the health and quality of the bird.
I am hoping that by breeding to a wellbred green, blue or grey, that I will be able to retain the colours and not loose them to the more dominant normal colours.




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Old 09-15-2018, 05:43 AM
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Green and grey are dominant so you won't lose them, blue is recessive but easy enough to breed for. Other types vary but it is easy enough to track down how to maintain them when breeding.

Generally there are no detrimental health or size issues with breeding any of the varieties. Some varieties are generally smaller than show type normals, but they are not small for the species and their size is not detrimental. In fact they have fewer feather and other issues than the larger birds.

Size is determined by the size of the parents, what colour they are has no bearing on size or health. Normals can be useful in a breeding program but they have no special health or size genes that other types don't. It is size and health of the individual bird that has an effect, not what variety they are.

If you want to know how to produce certain varieties feel free to ask!
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonic View Post
Green and grey are dominant so you won't lose them, blue is recessive but easy enough to breed for. Other types vary but it is easy enough to track down how to maintain them when breeding.

Generally there are no detrimental health or size issues with breeding any of the varieties. Some varieties are generally smaller than show type normals, but they are not small for the species and their size is not detrimental. In fact they have fewer feather and other issues than the larger birds.

Size is determined by the size of the parents, what colour they are has no bearing on size or health. Normals can be useful in a breeding program but they have no special health or size genes that other types don't. It is size and health of the individual bird that has an effect, not what variety they are.

If you want to know how to produce certain varieties feel free to ask!
The first three are some of the mutations the breeder has. The rest are some of mine.
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:04 PM
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They all look lovely. The first two look to be some form of yellow face with spangle and probably cinnamon. The third looks like a grey texas clearbody opaline. Yours are a normal light green and opaline light green.

Spangle is dominant so you will get spangle chicks.

Texas clearbody, cinnamon and opaline are sex-linked recessive so you may get some or not depending on the sex of the birds.

Green is dominant to yellow face so you will only get yf chicks if the green parent is split for blue. If the greens had a blue parent they will be split for blue.

Grey is dominant so you will get some grey greens if you pair the grey with a green.

Either way, they should produce a nice range of colours and hopefully increase the size to more like what you are after.
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