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-   -   Is there a genetic order to what mutation a baby will be? (https://www.talkbudgies.com/mutations-genetics/49300-there-genetic-order-what-mutation-baby-will.html)

CuteLittleBirdies 01-16-2010 09:38 PM

Is there a genetic order to what mutation a baby will be?
 
Hello everyone!

I have been wondering about a question for awhile and after my last clutch of babies are starting to feather out and I thought I would post and see what you guys think.

Is there a specific order that babies appear in as far as genetics? For example in the clutch that made me wonder this recently... the parents are a green series dark eyed clear male and a skyblue recessive pied female. From what I've read pairing these two birds together should give me half dark eyed clear babies and half recessive pied babies. Of this clutch of 8 eggs there are 5 babies that have hatched. The oldest one is a white DEC, the 2nd is all yellow DEC, and the 3rd is starting to feather out a recessive pied, and the rest it is still to early to tell for sure quite yet.

Does anyone know if there is any order to this? 50% of the babies are supposed to be one color and 50% the other... so there must be some rhyme and reason to it or how would we be able to know what to expect from a specific paring when half babies should be of one color and half the other? In a clutch of odd numbers such as this one of 5, what determines if 3 of the babies will be DEC or 2 will be DEC? It would seem to make sence if it would go every other baby being one and then the other color, but like in this clutch the first 2 are DEC in a row and then a recessive pied, and in alot of other clutches I have had there doesnt seem to be any order to it either. Has anyone else ever thought about it or has there been any research on it? Let me know what you guys think =)

tonic 01-17-2010 12:06 AM

no there is no order, the genes combine randomly to form the new chicks so it is a lucky dip which is which.

the percentages are based on lots and lots of clutches of chicks. if you had enough chicks eventually you would end up with 50% dec and 50% rec pied. but with just a few chicks you can have any proportion show up, you could get 100% dec for instance, because the genes come together randomly.

riotfox 01-17-2010 05:03 AM

first of all i think both parents must be carrieres of the recessive pied gene for any of the babies to be that.

there is no order in which they hatch. its all just random. like flipping a coin.

if you have a half chance of dec babies then that goes for each chick. like each individual chick has a half chance of being dec. it doesnt mean you will necessarily get say, 2 of each outcome. just like if you flip a coin four times its a half chance to get heads every time. it doesnt mean that it will alternate heads and tails. its quite possible you will get four heads in a row. but its still a 50% chance of tails.

if that makes any sense

CuteLittleBirdies 01-17-2010 05:26 AM

A DEC comes from a recessive pied and a clear flight pied.. thats why when they are paired with a recessive pied or another DEC they can have DEC chicks from what i've read, and am trying out for myself now =)

Yes I agree with what you both said. I guess I just didnt make the way I worded it. I know it cant be guaranted what order the babies will come out in, but if there is no order to it how can they come up with figures as to what is expected is more of what I was wondering. Tonic got what I was thinking =)

riotfox 01-17-2010 07:49 AM

ahh woops sorry for posting three times ill delete those in a second. so im guessing you dont know much about how genetics works?

if not, heres an attempt at explaining it.

say you had a blue budgie and a green budgie split for blue. and they had babies. for the base colour, each baby would recieve one chromosome (i think thats the right word) from each parent.

the blue parent would have two genes for blue because blue is recessive. so, it would have to give the baby a blue chromosome.

the green parent would have one gene for green and one gene for blue, because its split
for blue. so, it could give the baby a green or a blue chromosome. it is completely random which chromosome is given by each parent. if it gave the baby a green, then the baby would have one green and one blue chromosome, and would be green because green is dominant to blue. if it gave a blue chromosome, then the baby would be blue because it would have two blue chromosomes.

so there is a 50% chance of the baby being green. thats the basic idea behind the percentages but more complicated and with lots of mutations.

sorry i made that a bit too simplistic then i meant it to be :). just so you know i dont think you dont get genetics at all. and i hav no idea about the specific mutations like dark eyed clear ;)

Caspir 01-17-2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riotfox (Post 575091)
ahh woops sorry for posting three times ill delete those in a second. so im guessing you dont know much about how genetics works?

if not, heres an attempt at explaining it.

say you had a blue budgie and a green budgie split for blue. and they had babies. for the base colour, each baby would recieve one chromosome (i think thats the right word) from each parent.

the blue parent would have two genes for blue because blue is recessive. so, it would have to give the baby a blue chromosome.

the green parent would have one gene for green and one gene for blue, because its split
for blue. so, it could give the baby a green or a blue chromosome. it is completely random which chromosome is given by each parent. if it gave the baby a green, then the baby would have one green and one blue chromosome, and would be green because green is dominant to blue. if it gave a blue chromosome, then the baby would be blue because it would have two blue chromosomes.

so there is a 50% chance of the baby being green. thats the basic idea behind the percentages but more complicated and with lots of mutations.

sorry i made that a bit too simplistic then i meant it to be :). just so you know i dont think you dont get genetics at all. and i hav no idea about the specific mutations like dark eyed clear ;)

Wow Fox, that was very nicely said. I could even follow that (and I've got to be the worst when it comes to genetics!)... thanks for the lesson. :)

CuteLittleBirdies 01-17-2010 04:05 PM

Yes I know the basics of genetics.... but the basics only. Nothing like nev or dean though =) Sorry for asking what now appears to be a stupid question =)

riotfox 01-17-2010 06:21 PM

no its not a stupid question. i just dont get what you are asking :)

2many 01-19-2010 06:44 PM

I totally get what you are saying. It would be great if each clutch would have the proper number of babies to show each possible mutation that the parents show or carry. But realistically, eggs don't hatch, some chicks die, etc. So mathmatical percentages don't match with what you actually see in the nest.

For example : Mystique and George are a pair who decided to surprise me with little ones. Mystique is a sf grey opaline; George is a green who it turns out carries blue and opaline. I could have gotten grey greens, greens, greys and blues, with some being opaline. Out of 6 fertile eggs (second clutch; first clutch never hatched), 4 hatched. I got one grey green, one green, one grey, and another grey! Would have been nice to get a blue, but it wasn't meant to be. Three are opaline, one is normal; I believe that is off the mathmatical percentage too. Stormy and Noah also had little ones. Stormy is sf greywing grey opaline, Noah is a green who carries blue and opaline. Both it turns out, carry pied. Out of eight fertile eggs, 7 hatched. I got two green opalines, two blue normals, a blue (normal) pied, a green (opaline?) pied, and a green normal. I can't tell if any are grey greens, but I got no greys with these guys. Lol, gotta love the odds :P.


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