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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #11  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:29 AM
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I've seen this budgie (and this poster) on other budgie forums. I don't think i've yet replied elsewhere so I will here. Although i mostly have questions:

- How long have you had her for?
- Has she moulted since you had her? If so, has her black feather or mottling changed?
- Do you have any of her siblings or parents? If not, do you know the breeder or have contact with the person you purchased her from?
- She is obviously opaline, and most claims of 'blackface' budgies seem to involve opalines, so it could be a case of extreme flecking or a further adaptation of the opaline gene which is a melanin redistributing gene, therefore it makes sense to think that it could have changed the distribution of black feathering up the neck.
- Do you plan on breeding her? I would recommend you do so sooner rather than later given her unknown age. In order to see if her colour is a mutation or a once off anomaly you will need to breed her asap, and then pair her back to a son when he is about 8-12 months old (sooner than you would normally pair a cock up given the need to rush).

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  #12  
Old 04-15-2010, 06:31 AM
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Looks like a coal face?
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeena View Post
Can you post a video or the picture here for convenience?
Tenerife, Spain.

Hi Zeena.
I don't know how to post videos here, but feel free to do it you.
I also have photos if anybody wants some.
As yet I only know how to send them to email addresses.
Best wishes,
Solsti.
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guthwulf View Post
I've seen this budgie (and this poster) on other budgie forums. I don't think i've yet replied elsewhere so I will here. Although i mostly have questions:

1.- How long have you had her for?
2.- Has she moulted since you had her? If so, has her black feather or mottling changed?
3.- Do you have any of her siblings or parents? If not, do you know the breeder or have contact with the person you purchased her from?
4.- She is obviously opaline, and most claims of 'blackface' budgies seem to involve opalines, so it could be a case of extreme flecking or a further adaptation of the opaline gene which is a melanin redistributing gene, therefore it makes sense to think that it could have changed the distribution of black feathering up the neck.
5.- Do you plan on breeding her? I would recommend you do so sooner rather than later given her unknown age. In order to see if her colour is a mutation or a once off anomaly you will need to breed her asap, and then pair her back to a son when he is about 8-12 months old (sooner than you would normally pair a cock up given the need to rush).
Tenerife, Spain.

Hello Guthwulf.
1. Since last month (March 2010).

2. She has just finished moulting her tail-feathers.
I don't believe she has moulted any other feathers in the few weeks that I've had her.

3. No, I don't have any of her relatives that I'm aware of, but do have many birds from the same distributor, so it's quite possible that one or more of my birds is related to her.
I plan to supply the same distributor with some budgie chicks soon, and thereby try to make contact with the breeders of my bird, if I can track them.

4. Uh-huh. Were the original Dutch blackfaces also of opaline origin?
I don't really have a good grasp in how to identify opalines.
What is it in my bird that makes her so obviously opaline?
What exactly do you see as different in the distribution of black feathering up the neck?

5. Yes, last week I bought what I have since been told is a mauve opaline cock.
He is now sharing her cage.
I got him from the same distributors as her, and chose him mainly because he seemed to be the bird in best breeding and general condition.
I plan to give them a larger cage and a nest box in a few days.
Her nose has lost the small brown patch that you can see in the video and is now completely light blue, but I'm hoping that she'll soon come into breeding condition as the days are lengthening in this part of the globe.
Have you any tips on how to get them breeding more quickly?

Best wishes,
Solsti.
  #15  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solsti View Post
Tenerife, Spain.

Hello Guthwulf.
1. Since last month (March 2010).

2. She has just finished moulting her tail-feathers.
I don't believe she has moulted any other feathers in the few weeks that I've had her. It will be interesting to see her after a proper moult. It may also pay to ask the breeder about the feeding regime in his aviary, see what seeds or other things she might have frequently eaten before being sold.

3. No, I don't have any of her relatives that I'm aware of, but do have many birds from the same distributor, so it's quite possible that one or more of my birds is related to her.
I plan to supply the same distributor with some budgie chicks soon, and thereby try to make contact with the breeders of my bird, if I can track them. Good Be sure to enquire as to her relatives. Hopefully he has good records or an even better memory

4. Uh-huh. Were the original Dutch blackfaces also of opaline origin?
I don't really have a good grasp in how to identify opalines.
What is it in my bird that makes her so obviously opaline?
What exactly do you see as different in the distribution of black feathering up the neck?You can tell she is opaline given the body colour evident in her wings, and the body colour and white colour running into her tail feathers as is normal with opalines. What is also common in opalines (and goes against 'proper' opaline standards set by the budgerigar society) is having body colour that runs up the neck and shoulders. In your case it could be that black has gone up the neck instead of body colour, suggesting as i mentioned a possible variation on the standard effect of the opaline gene. Or it could be a diet or other related cause we dont yet know about, im just hypothesizing here


5. Yes, last week I bought what I have since been told is a mauve opaline cock.
He is now sharing her cage.
I got him from the same distributors as her, and chose him mainly because he seemed to be the bird in best breeding and general condition.
I plan to give them a larger cage and a nest box in a few days.
Her nose has lost the small brown patch that you can see in the video and is now completely light blue, but I'm hoping that she'll soon come into breeding condition as the days are lengthening in this part of the globe.
Have you any tips on how to get them breeding more quickly?
An opaline cock would be a good partner for her. Unfortunately in my experience, hens take the longest time to settle in and be ready for breeding after being newly purchased. From what I have seen in my own aviary, most but not all hens take about 6 months to settle into their new environment before becoming interested in breeding. SOME hens are more accepting and will go down to breed sooner. Others might come into season immediately after their first heavy moult. By the sounds of it your hen has just finished a cycle and I would not introduce the nest box now. I would pair her with the cock, place both of them on daily soft food and provide sources of calcium to encourage her to build up her stores of calcium and other vitamins/minerals in preparation for breeding. After 2-3 weeks you should notice any bonding or courting behaviour and it may then be time to introduce a nest box. It might be a better idea to pair her with an opaline cock that has bred before as experienced cocks that chase hens have a better chance of bringing a hen into condition as well as introducing her to the nest box and stimulating nesting behaviours.

Best wishes,
Solsti.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
  #16  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guthwulf View Post
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Tenerife, Spain.

'Nice one Guthwulf.
Yes, it's becoming clearer and fuzzier every time I get more information from somebody on this issue.
I'll have to knuckle down and get my head around what an opaline is and is not.
It seems to be a variety full of contradictions, on the surface.
As it's reckoned that wild budgies only and quickly come into breeding condition during rainy seasons, I wonder if imitating those conditions (with maybe a sprayer or a sprinkler system to imitate rain and/or a few little bowls of water on the floor to imitate puddles) would speed up the process.
Has any solid research been done on such practices, as I'd like to get them into breeding condition as soon as possible.
It's my poulty-farmer way of thinking kicking in here, as with most poultry we simply give them a specific lighting and temperature regimen, adjust the feeding, and you have them laying in a couple of weeks.
'Any thoughts on something along those lines for budgies?
  #17  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:52 PM
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Woah! what a cutie i think she is just heavily barred
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:08 PM
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Wow that's unique... Really cool!
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solsti View Post
Tenerife, Spain.

4. Uh-huh. Were the original Dutch blackfaces also of opaline origin?

Best wishes,
Solsti.
The original blackfaces are a recessive variety if i recall correctly and not only is the face black, but the entire body is covered in black striations.. What I meant to say is that since then, those who have also claimed to have a 'new' type of blackface it has almost always been an opaline bird.

Have a look here:
https://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/...3&hl=blackface
Or here:
https://www.budgieworld.co.uk/15.html

So often what it comes down to is people usually decide it is just a heavily marked opaline. We still dont know if thats the case with your bird, but there are a lot of similarities.

As far as getting her intro breeding condition goes, I don't really believe it can be rushed along. I never TRY and get my hens into breeding condition, I wait until they show me they are ready. As I said before, increasing the amount of soft food and access to vitamins/minerals is part of the preparation, in about 2 weeks her hormones should be at the right level and the last thing I might try is to get a very randy cock who is good at flirting and mounting hens and has bred chicks before (preferably a blue series opaline cock if possible).
  #20  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:48 AM
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I was going to suggest you look at the coal face on this site, but then realized your bird is already on it!

https://www.officialbarrieshuttbudger...smutations.htm
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