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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.
Thread Description:How do you breed lacewings without lacewings???

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  #1  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:20 AM
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Question Breeding lacewings

Ok I have been trying to figure out how to breed a lacewing with out actually having a lace wing. I have a male that is split for ino and a female that is cinnamon. But my head is spinning trying to figure out what their chicks would look like. I know that 50% of the females will be ino and 50% of the males will be split for ino. I also know that 50% of the males will be split for cinnamon as well. I know that both ino and cinnamon are sex linked. So can this pair produce a male that is split for both ino and cinnamon? After that should I pair the male chick that is split for both genes to a cinnamon hen or an ino hen? And what will their chicks out comes be? Wow my head is spinning but I know there is a way to do this. It will just take me a wile... Thanks for any ones input.

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Old 04-19-2010, 12:42 AM
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I thought about the rest of my flock and I have more birds to pick from as well if this helps. I have...

1 sky blue single factor spangle cock split for ino
2 sky blue single factor spangle single factor dominant pied single factor violet cock that may be split for ino
3 opaline yellow face type two sky blue double factor violet single factor cock that may be split for cinnamon
4 opaline recessive pied yellow face type two sky blue cock that may be split for cinnamon
5 green cinnamon hen
6 an albino hen covering dominant pied and spangle

I guess what I'm trying to ask is can you tell me how I can produce a male and female lacewing with the birds I have?
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:42 AM
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hi there,

it is possible, but it relies on a cross-over which only occurs about 3% of the time with the ino and cinnamon genes....

if you cross the /ino male with the cin hen you get some males that are split for both ino and cinnamon. however as they recieved the ino on the chromosome from the male and the cinnamon on the chromosome from the hen the two genes are not onthe same chromosome, which they need to be to make a lacewing... a lacewing hen is Xino-cin/Y and a lacewing male is Xino-cin/Xino-cin.

the only way for the genes to get onto the same chromosome is for a cross-over to occur. this is when the two chromosome get tangled and end up breaking and reattaching to the opposite chromosome. this is not unusual it is how we got opaline cinnamons too. but as ino and cinnamon are found quite close together on the chromosome there is only a three percent chance of the break occurring at the right place to move the two chromosomes onto the same gene.

so, you really want to start with an ino and a cinnamon rather than a /ino so you know which the males are all /ino and cinnamon. then if an appropriate cross-over occurs you end up with a /ino-cin male that has the ino and cin on the same chromosome.

this male will produce lacewing hens.... and then you could use her also to produce lacewing males... but it is very reliant on chance and could take ages!
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:51 AM
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I've answered this by PM but I'll post it here in case others are interested

I have bred some lacewings by combining ino and cinnamon but doing it this way you get an extremely small percentage of lacewing chicks and it takes at least 2 generations. From the first two cocks I bred that could produce lacewings I got one lacewing hen out of 31 chicks. The third cock had a lacewing in his first clutch - he will be paired to a lacewing hen soon

First you have to produce a cock bird that is split for both cinnamon & ino. Then mate this young cock to either a cinnamon or an ino hen to get female lacewings

If you paired one of your cock birds that is split for ino to the cinnamon hen half of the young males would be split for both mutations. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell which ones carry the right genes without breeding them and this would take more time

It would be better to get a cinnamon cock to mate to the ino hen or an ino cock to mate to the cinnamon hen, then all the males would be split for both mutations

Once you have a lacewing hen she can be used to produce cocks that are split for lacewing. About half the female chicks from these cocks will be lacewing

To produce male lacewings you would need to mate a lacewing hen to cock that is split for lacewing
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:04 PM
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hi nev,

i have not bred lacewings this way as i have found them in petshops in the past so had stock to breed from. i think it would be a fun experiment/process to create a completely new lacewing line...

did you do this for interest? or could you not find any lacewings up your way? i have not had them for several years and so do not know how available they are at the moment.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:45 PM
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I have never seen a lacewing in my area. I would love to create a new blood line. Lol that would make me feel so accomplished as a breeder! Well one day when I have the stock to do so.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:05 PM
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I couldn't find any to buy so I decided to try and create some. I'll do a post about them when I have time
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:49 PM
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that would be great nev! i have always wanted to do this myself...
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
I've answered this by PM but I'll post it here in case others are interested

I have bred some lacewings by combining ino and cinnamon but doing it this way you get an extremely small percentage of lacewing chicks and it takes at least 2 generations. From the first two cocks I bred that could produce lacewings I got one lacewing hen out of 31 chicks. The third cock had a lacewing in his first clutch - he will be paired to a lacewing hen soon

First you have to produce a cock bird that is split for both cinnamon & ino. Then mate this young cock to either a cinnamon or an ino hen to get female lacewings

If you paired one of your cock birds that is split for ino to the cinnamon hen half of the young males would be split for both mutations. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell which ones carry the right genes without breeding them and this would take more time

It would be better to get a cinnamon cock to mate to the ino hen or an ino cock to mate to the cinnamon hen, then all the males would be split for both mutations

Once you have a lacewing hen she can be used to produce cocks that are split for lacewing. About half the female chicks from these cocks will be lacewing

To produce male lacewings you would need to mate a lacewing hen to cock that is split for lacewing
I was searching google on how to breed lacewing, and it took me to your post

Thanks nev, you are really a master in budgie mutation
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Old 06-09-2010, 03:27 PM
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I also have been trying to produce a line of Lacewings. I was lucky enough to stumble upon a Lacewing cock at a local bird store here in town.

As far as I remember, if I bred him to a Cinnamon hen, I will get Lacewing hens, and Albino/Cinnamon cocks. Breeding him to a Cinnamon hen might also help strengthen the Cinnamon markings As you can see in the pictures below, his Cinnamon markings aren't very strong. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread. Just wanted to share what info I can offer







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