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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:32 PM
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Question Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?

I picked up this little beauty from my local pet store even though she was SOOOO tiny - typically not a bird I would choose. She was so pretty though that I was in love with her right away.


In my study of genetics, I have determined her to be either a slate, a grey or a violet variety. My best guess is slate, but because slates are relatively uncommon at least where I live, I thought I'd throw it out there for your guys' opinions. The first two pictures are without flash while the second two are with flash. The room was low lit, so the non-flash pictures were hard - I apologize for any lack of clarity.


I have another bird that is a SF violet that I've included a picture of for comparison. I don't own a grey budgie, but from all the pictures I've been able to find, the grey has no hint of either blue or violet but is a straight grey color.


Thanks in advance for opinions!
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Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-montana.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-montananoflash3.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-montanaflash.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-montanaflash3.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-calypso.jpg  


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  #2  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:48 PM
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I think she is a violet grey but other experts will along shortly and confirm
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeena View Post
I think she is a violet grey but other experts will along shortly and confirm
You know, for whatever reason I didn't even CONSIDER that!! I feel like an idiot!! LOL To me she was either cobalt violet, grey or slate. LOL Pft.


Still interested in others' opinions though. Thank you, Zeena!
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:27 PM
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If she was a violet grey she'd have to be a cobalt violet grey as my violet grey is really light colored, mines probably skyblue. Maybe a mauve?
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Old 05-17-2010, 02:12 AM
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Opaline mauve
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Old 05-17-2010, 02:16 AM
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She is a violet grey opaline. Her base colour is probably cobalt.

The cheek patches show her colour"
If they were blue or light grey she would be a grey
If they were vivid purple she would be violet
If they were Violet she would be a mauve
As they are a dark greyish purple she must be a violet grey

Grey & violet are both colour adding factors and the under-lying colour is often visible, especially during a moult. When a bird is both violet & grey the shade may vary from one season to another
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teasha View Post
If she was a violet grey she'd have to be a cobalt violet grey as my violet grey is really light colored, mines probably skyblue. Maybe a mauve?

Hi Teasha and thank you! Would you mind posting a picture of yours? I'm intrigued now by the possibilities and have looked at some other examples of violets, greys, mauves, skyblues and cobalts. Of course everyone seems to have their own opinion about what constitutes each color.


I'd love to see anyone/everyone's birds who are presumed to be either grey, mauve, violet or any combination of these colors we're talking about. I'm going to post my other birds who have these color traits and see what everyone thinks.

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Old 05-17-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guthwulf View Post
Opaline mauve
Hi Guthwulf! Thank you for your opinion! Here's a picture of exactly that which I found on the web. The owner of this bird has named him a "DF Mauve." Obviously he/she means a double dark factor blue series bird which produces a color called "mauve." I've also re-attached a non-flash picture of Montana for comparison. Does your opinion stand?

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Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-mauve-budgie.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-montana.jpg  
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftwrmrain View Post
Hi Teasha and thank you! Would you mind posting a picture of yours? I'm intrigued now by the possibilities and have looked at some other examples of violets, greys, mauves, skyblues and cobalts. Of course everyone seems to have their own opinion about what constitutes each color.


I'd love to see anyone/everyone's birds who are presumed to be either grey, mauve, violet or any combination of these colors we're talking about. I'm going to post my other birds who have these color traits and see what everyone thinks.

I can post photos of some of mine. But in your search you will learn that mutations and colors in not as easy as it looks, that's why you see different opinions. When you look at a bird you cannot always tell exactly what it is, certain colors can be well hidden such as violet. Alot of times in a photo they look so much different than in person. Guthwulf and Nev are our experts on this here.

This one here is prob skyblue under, but also violet grey. Hard to tell in the photo, but she has violet on her and a greyish cast.


This is a yf violet spangle opaline - base color, not sure


Here's a great place to start learning about mutations
https://www.****************/colorsguide.html#blackface
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
She is a violet grey opaline. Her base colour is probably cobalt.

The cheek patches show her colour"
If they were blue or light grey she would be a grey
If they were vivid purple she would be violet
If they were Violet she would be a mauve
As they are a dark greyish purple she must be a violet grey

Grey & violet are both colour adding factors and the under-lying colour is often visible, especially during a moult. When a bird is both violet & grey the shade may vary from one season to another
Thanks so much Nev for your opinion here. Clearly, you have a lot of experience with these colors. I'm having trouble visualizing the difference between "vivid purple" and "violet" cheek patches.


Also, is it true that "violet" in it's most honest interpretation means a double factor violet bird with any color blue base? So, a SF violet bird with any of the three color bases is simply called that - SF sky, SF cobalt, or SF mauve? This is keeping in mind that the "dark factor" is totally separate from the "violet factor."


When looking at Montana, even though her head stripes are reversed due to her opaline mutation, they seem much more grey to me than black as I have seen in non-grey opalines. Is this part of what leads you to your "grey violet" conclusion? I know her tail is not easy to see in the photos but it is a dark greyish-deep purple color much like her cheek patch.


In looking up these colors more, it is true that "mauve" and "grey violet" look very similar, however as I said before it seems people decide what their bird is based on what they want them to be rather than truly attempting to identify exact genes through either learning of their parentage or breeding.


I'm including a picture again of Calypso, what I believed to be a SF Violet Cobalt, and Talon, an English budgie who I believed to be the same, but flash seems to make all the difference in that determination. These are NON-flash photos of the two of them. I'm also including another of Montana, who I placed under the same lighting conditions as Talon and Calypso, for comparison. Oh, and also a picture of Old Man Winter - he's a skyblue for color comparison, taken with flash. If these pictures appear in the order I preview them in, the 3rd picture is Talon and Calypso taken with flash and the last one is Old Man Winter with flash. The others are natural light.



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Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-calypsotalonmontana.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-calypsotalon4.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-calypsotalon.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-taloncalypso3.jpg   Is Montana a Slate, Violet, Grey or ?-oldmanwinter.jpg  

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