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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:15 PM
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It is my understanding that lacewing is a gene that, once merged from cinnamon and ino, is a totally different mutation standing all on it's own, that in the future is able to produce lacewing offspring without having to ever add cinnamon to the mix again. I was studying lacewings awhile back and my recollection is that cinnamon doesn't bring anything positive to the breeding, and tends to muddy the separation that those who believe lacewing is a mutation all of it's own find disruptive when trying to prove their point.

Now, for those who have bred lacewings or have a good understanding of the ins and outs of them, I have a young white (presumed albino) female that has light, and I do mean light brown markings visible on her head, wings and down her back. However, you really wouldn't notice it unless you were looking at her compared to a normal albino, AND were looking for that specific difference. I know lacewings tend to get darker as they molt, so I'm anxiously awaiting her to age. She was hatched in January so has already been through one molt.

When I try to get pictures of her, it's ridiculously hard because the markings are so light. There cannot be flash used or the light washes the light markings right out. Still, I'll attach what I have been able to get and you can tell me what you think this means - is she a variation of lacewing, maybe a weak version and if so, how?? As soon as I realized she was different, I went back to the breeder (my friend) and took home all this clutch's albino offspring and they are pure white - distinctly different than she is. I also have a picture of the clutch's parents I'll attach as the last picture.

I've pondered this question and researched an answer for a long time, so opinions may help clear the fog in my head. Thanks in advance!!


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Lacewings - Food For Thought-lucymarkings.jpg   Lacewings - Food For Thought-lucymarkings2.jpg   Lacewings - Food For Thought-lucymarkings3.jpg   Lacewings - Food For Thought-lucyflash.jpg   Lacewings - Food For Thought-lucyparents.jpg  


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  #2  
Old 05-24-2010, 01:29 AM
tonic (Toni)
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hi there,

it will be interesting to see if she darkens up when she moults again. sometimes albinos have faint markings but i have usually seen these as a pale grey rather than brown. the father could be split for ino and cinnamon.

i guess it is easier to see the lacewing as a separate variety, but it is really a combination like any other combination (such as opaline cinnamon). It is just that as the ino and cinnamon genes are close together on the chromosome they are usually passed on together... but not always.

you do not ever have to add cinnamon again because it is already there, just like the ino is already there. to me it seems pointless to try and breed the cinnamon out of the lacewing as it is an ino cinnamon. the only way i can see to prove that lacewings are a separate variety without cinnamon would be to bred one from scratch without using any cinnamon.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:02 AM
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Many albinos have light wing markings and a suffusion of colour on their bodies. Always remember that the official description of any mutation is based on the ideal show bird and it is not necessarily the normal for every bird of the mutation. If a lacewing is also greywing or dilute the brown wing markings may never show but breeding results could prove that it is a lacewing. Usually you will see a lilac tinge to the cheek patches on a lacewing even if it has light markings. If the wing markings were going to darken I would expect it to happen on the first moult

There have been a lot of theories about lacewing breeding over the years and much of the published information is not totally correct. The cinnamon & ino mutations combine to make a lacewing but they will still work separately. You will get all cinnamon chicks from mating a lacewing hen to a cinnamon cock; and you will get all inos by mating a lacewing hen to an ino cock. In both cases the young males will be split for lacewing but it does prove that the lacewing is a cinnamon ino because to get males of any sex-linked mutation the gene must come from both parents

As far as adding more cinnamon to lacewings is concerned, mating them to cinnamons would not increase the amount of cinnamon in each bird but it could improve the quality of the cinnamon. There is a lot of variation in cinnamons and if you want to darken the cinnamon markings of your lacewings the most logical thing would be to out cross them to a very dark cinnamon
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:25 PM
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Thank you, Tonic and Nev!! From what I understand about increasing the intensity of the brown markings, outcrossing to a mauve would be ideal because the dark factor would be passed on, increasing the intensity of the color that IS there, all the while decreasing the suffusion found in skyblues. I would imagine a dark cinnamon would do the same since clearly cinnamon coloring comes through the white of the ino.

I questioned the dark factor theory though because I haven't bred dark factored lacewings, so I don't know that the dark factor would actually be visually apparent.

I had considered the possibility of my Lucy being also greywing, thus reducing the intensity of her markings. Since greywing is a recessive mutation, it would make sense that her lacewing gene, if present could be passed on without the presence of the lightening effects of the greywing gene, correct?

I will do some thinking on this, but right off hand, what is your 1st thought about an appropriate mate for Lucy at some point that would give the best opportunity for producing additional lacewings? Obviously, it would have been nicer if she were a he, but since she isn't, it's probably going to take several generations.

I have a Texas Clearbody male of the blue series. Hmm.. may have to work out what they would end up giving me.

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