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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:06 PM
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Default Update on Cinnamon & Marvin's 8 week chicks

The 1st chick is 8 weeks old today! They are hopping and climbing away happily. Taiyou the Albino and chick #4 seem to have french moult the worst. Chick #6 is the only one with a semi tail. Can anyone advise genetics and male/female please?

Parents Cinnamon and Charlie
Quote: By looking at the pictures you have an Albino and Lutino meaning your Cock is split Ino, you also have Greywings?(or clearwing I can't fully tell) which would be from the Cock again, and also Spangles which I would also say your Cock is. If you can take a picture of the back of the Cock bird it would help.

Quote: so those four tell us that the dad is a spangle and is split for ino and the mum is split for blue.
Does the dad have any white patches on his body, the lower feathers looked a bit white inthe pictures? if so he is a dom pied also and the green spangle will be dom pied too. if he has not pied patches the chick is split rec pied, and one of the parents is too (they could have a head spot too).
The other two look like dilutes to me, which would mean both parents have the dilute gene too! the dad looks quite pale so maybe he is dilute and the hen is split dilute? but maybe they are cinnamon
Greywings... someone with more experience may be able to tell...
So the parents could be:
hen - greygreen cinnamon/blue, dilute? and rec pied?
cock - cobalt? spangle dilute?/ino and rec pied?



I have a photo of their backs but it isn't loaded yet

Chick #1 - m/f? - some kind of green dilute spangle/ clearwing?



Chick #2 m/f? - Cobalt Spangle


Chick #3 female albino
Chick #5 female???? lutino


Chick #4 m/f? -some kind of blue dilute spangle / clearwing?


Chick #6 m/f? - Dark Green Spangle?
https://information.tewhanau.com/imag...Chick_2807.JPG
She is camera shy and I'll need to upload a better photo

Many thanks for your help.

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  #2  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:33 PM
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Ouch, some bad french moult there
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:50 PM
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Well what an assortment of mutations out of one clutch. The first chick looks to be a full color grey wing or a clear wing green of course. the second is a blue spangle. Then the albino and lutino chicks. And last but not least a normal blue and a blue full color grey wing or clear wing. I'm not sue on the gender of your chicks most of the ceres look very pale. That would mean females. But the last chick the blue grey/clear wing looks more purple. But like I said I'm not sure.

Wow so now that you have gathered all of this info on the chicks you know much more about the parents genes. As for the female she is a green,cinnamon split for blue and either grey or clear wing. And for the male he is a blue spangle. His body color looks very light so he ma also be grey or clear wing as well. He is split for ino, and maybe grey or clear wing.

I'm not sure if you know this or not but all of your male chicks will be split for cinnamon and 50% of the female chicks will be ino. What a brain teaser. I love genetics.

(EDIT)
Wow i missed the green spangle chick. that one looks like a male to me. He is beautiful! what a pattern on him. And the pied spot... That means that either the male is dominant pied or both parents are split for recessive pied. Congrats on the beautiful clutch.
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:59 AM
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Many thanks for all that info!! How do you know to work all this out? I'm assuming reading and reading, but how much experience too? Where do I start to learn?

Yes a lovely bunch of chicks - I need to get more photos of the Dad, Marvin as I think people are getting his genetics wrong. He is a real pale mauve colour not blue but is that the dilute coming through? He has white wings that have faint scallop markings at the top of the wings and a few more further down. He is very hard to get a good photo so the colours and markings show up. He also has a spot on the back of his head. His tail is white.

Cinnamon and Marvin had two spangles, two dilutes and two inos (albino, lutino). What a mix as you say!





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Old 12-17-2010, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Guthwulf View Post
Ouch, some bad french moult there
Helen, your babies are adorable. But what are you going to do about the French Molt? French Molt is a serious disease. See https://www.avianweb.com/frenchmolt.html and https://www3.sympatico.ca/davehansen/molt.html.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:41 AM
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Your hen is a cinnamon grey green and judging by the chicks she must be split for blue & greywing (or dilute)

The cock is a spangle greywing & his must be split for ino

Chick 1 is a grey green greywing female

Chick 2 is a cobalt spangle female

Chick 3 is an albino female

Chick 5 is a lutino female

Chick 4 is a greywing cobalt male

Chick 6 is a dark green spangle (the spot on his head does not necessarily mean he is split for recessive pied)

Most long term breeders will strike French moult at some stage and they all seem to have different ideas on how to treat it. The virus seems to be carried by many of our birds but clinical signs only appear occasionally. If the affected birds are kept in a quiet place and fed a vitamin rich diet most will grow new feathers in 2 or 3 months. Because birds that are unable to fly are insecure they are easily stressed so it is important that they are made to feel safe as stress will slow down their recovery. If the parents are not allowed to breed again for about 6 months they generally don’t have a problem with future clutches.

I have a French moulter that has recently fledged. He was hatched from the parent’s only fertile egg. He has 2 foster siblings (from two other pairs) who are not affected at all even though they were raised in the same nest from when they were just a few days old
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:19 PM
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I am so confused at what to do with my french moults. Getting told "you have french moult" and "what bad french moult" have thrown me. I have been researching the internet furiously since then and had a couple of helpful replies but I am a person that needs instructions. I had a big cry because nothing is going to plan and I have such beautiful babies. Also the contagious or not part is confusing. I looked at the two sites but they contradict each other too. There just isn't enough info on this subject and I really needed someone's view on what they did/do. A bird club member told me to chloroform them all and then a week later told me that was what she did - 40 years ago!!!! I decided yesterday that I will just take one day at a time and not stress out about it all and see what happens. This is our first year breeding and nature is throwing everything at us possible so we will just rough it and see what happens in the end. Probably some of you breeders will disagree but then you have experience and knowledge on your side.

Anyway, we caught the babies from the nursery aviary, hosed it out, cleaned it with a domestos solution and hosed again. Then we gave the 10 babies a dettol solution as it contains the chemical that was suggested to use in one of the articles. I also got the other 7 babies from the main aviary and dettol bathed them too and put them in with the others (we even did the quails for good measure!) So here is a funny to difuse the tension:









Thankfully it got to 25deg that afternoon so they all dried out. Now we have rain for the next few days but very hot and humid. I am yet to brave the rain and go feed them this morning.

My next question will be about the aviaries and cross-contamination through wind. I will get the photos today (between heavy rain showers hopefully else in the rain) so you can see the proximities of the 3 aviaries to each other because I have another dilema coming up!!!! Oooh why isn't this simple?

Thank you for any and all help and I'll sift through it all.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
Your hen is a cinnamon grey green and judging by the chicks she must be split for blue & greywing (or dilute)

The cock is a spangle greywing & his must be split for ino

Chick 1 is a grey green greywing female

Chick 2 is a cobalt spangle female

Chick 3 is an albino female

Chick 5 is a lutino female

Chick 4 is a greywing cobalt male

Chick 6 is a dark green spangle (the spot on his head does not necessarily mean he is split for recessive pied)

Most long term breeders will strike French moult at some stage and they all seem to have different ideas on how to treat it. The virus seems to be carried by many of our birds but clinical signs only appear occasionally. If the affected birds are kept in a quiet place and fed a vitamin rich diet most will grow new feathers in 2 or 3 months. Because birds that are unable to fly are insecure they are easily stressed so it is important that they are made to feel safe as stress will slow down their recovery. If the parents are not allowed to breed again for about 6 months they generally donít have a problem with future clutches.

I have a French moulter that has recently fledged. He was hatched from the parentís only fertile egg. He has 2 foster siblings (from two other pairs) who are not affected at all even though they were raised in the same nest from when they were just a few days old
Wow - thank you so much for all of that information. I feel a lot better now. This has been so stressful. I had scaly face in the aviary but managed to cure that, then the rat ruined my first lot of eggs, then the french moult ruined my next lot of hatchings and now I can't do another hatching.

Can you give me more details of "fed a vitamin rich diet" please? I give them hard boiled eggs, silver beet, dandelion leaves and flowers, puha, the seed grass growing long, budgie seed from tui/topflight, cuttlefish (will I need to crush this for them?), fine oyster grit, beach sand, soaked hulled oats and a soft food mix of soft food, arrowroot biscuits, seaweed powder, lori wet mix. Haven't got any dolomite or wheatgerm yet to add to it. Have added some broccoli, carrot & parsley (whizzed up) sometimes to it too. All of the food is given every day except the dandelion leaves, silverbeet, puha & seeds & eggs - those are 3-4 times a week, eggs 1-2 times a week. Do I need to get a vitamin to put in their water?
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwigal67 View Post
Can you give me more details of "fed a vitamin rich diet" please? I give them hard boiled eggs, silver beet, dandelion leaves and flowers, puha, the seed grass growing long, budgie seed from tui/topflight, cuttlefish (will I need to crush this for them?), fine oyster grit, beach sand, soaked hulled oats and a soft food mix of soft food, arrowroot biscuits, seaweed powder, lori wet mix. Haven't got any dolomite or wheatgerm yet to add to it. Have added some broccoli, carrot & parsley (whizzed up) sometimes to it too. All of the food is given every day except the dandelion leaves, silverbeet, puha & seeds & eggs - those are 3-4 times a week, eggs 1-2 times a week. Do I need to get a vitamin to put in their water?
It sounds like they are getting an excellent "Vitamin rich diet". I sometimes do add vitamins to their water but I doubt if it is necessary. Often they will ignore all the good food we supply for them, if this happens it often works putting an adult cock bird who will eat the goodies in the cage with them and they will copy him
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwigal67 View Post
I had a big cry because nothing is going to plan and I have such beautiful babies.
(((hugs))) After reading everything you've done, and continue to do, I'm confident everything will be all right.
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