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KTyne 05-31-2011 08:22 PM

Ooook, complicated stuff!
I think I got the gyst of it though. Makes sense.
I'm definitely a visual learner so even seeing the example you gave of your bird with the different letters for the genes helped! 'Tis why I like Punnett squares, because it shows you how it works. (when you have the two parents anyways, it shows what genes can be passed on)
Like I said before, I am just trying to get a hold on how the different genes affect each other, if they do at all. (like if one shows or doesn't if there is a certain other gene present, etc)

atvchick95 05-31-2011 11:14 PM


Originally Posted by KTyne (Post 831589)
How would a visually dominant/recessive bird work since Dominant pied is just that, dominant? O.o

*edit- obviously it does happen, but it doesn't make sense to me that a recessive gene would show as well as the dominant one! My brain hurts. >_<

it works because both parents had the recessive pied gene So some of their babies were dominant pied, some recessive pied Some were both visually

The 1st sign that told me she was both I was told she was a double factor dominant pied - is when I put her to a recessive pied male and I got Recessive pied babies and when i went and took a closer look i realized she had no iris rings she should of because of her age she'll be 2 yrs old Aug 21 2011 and has no iris rings at all (Recessive pied do not get iris rings)

KTyne 05-31-2011 11:33 PM

Ahhh, that makes sense! (I couldn't figure out by looking at her picture with my inexperienced eyes how she was both, lol)

RIPbudgies 05-31-2011 11:41 PM


Originally Posted by akane (Post 831546)
From budgie place:

Thus white with blue to make blue or yellow with blue to make green.

I see a lot of you seem to refer quite often to the budgieplace website. I can tell you know that allthough that website is good it is not correct in some areas. How the colouration is produced in a budgie (and all parrots for that matter) is 100% wrong.

There is no blue pigment in parrots!

The cross-section of a feather shows how the feather is made up. The outer layer (cortex) is where the Psittacine (yellow) pigment is found. The section immediately below that is the cloudy zone which creates constructive interference. In the center is and area called the medulla and this is where the melanin resides along with structures called vacuoles.

Essentially was happens is light from the visiable part of the electromagnetic spectrum enters the feathers. The various wavelengths change direction based in the refractive indexes of various layers of the feather and some are absorbed by the melanin. The wavelengths that finally reach our eye are the results of a process that although is hard to understand is indeed a scientific fact.

The process was orignally known as "The Tyndall Effect" or "Raleigh Scattering" but through the advent of better technology we now know exactly what it is.

KTyne 05-31-2011 11:53 PM

If a bird is both Dominant and Recessive pied does it just depend on the bird whether both are visual or not or are their other factors involved as well?

akane 06-01-2011 02:09 AM

No one ever said blue was a gene, caused by genetics, or had anything to do with pigment. Budgieplace does not say that either. It says the blue is caused by feather structure. That does not change the fact that putting the yellow pigment with the blue that the feather gives off causes us to see green. The cause is all you are arguing over and all your assumptions do not have to do with anything I said because I never stated there was anything causing blue pigment.

A bird that has both recessive genes for recessive pied and a dominant gene or 2 for dominant pied will show both pieds. All birds will. The recessive pied will cause some clear feathers and the dominant pied will cause some clear feathers. Whether you can tell there are 2 pieds being shown,1 , or the bird is a df dominant pied is another matter. Sometimes the only way to tell recessive pied is there is that the eyes do not get an iris ring over time. The same problem happens with clearflight pied. Dominant or recessive pied can make it hard to see clearflight pied. People with lots of experience recognizing the patterns can sometimes see that there are 2 pieds happening.

KTyne 06-01-2011 02:40 AM

Ahhhh ok. Budgie genetics are so strange! Atleast to me anyways, lol.
It seems weird to me still that a dominant gene and a recessive gene show at the same time. Maybe it's just the name getting to me, the fact that they're both called pied that makes me think it should be one or the other.

atvchick95 06-01-2011 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by KTyne (Post 831689)
If a bird is both Dominant and Recessive pied does it just depend on the bird whether both are visual or not or are their other factors involved as well?

When I bred mine to a Recessive pied I got 3 forms of pied, I got Just Dominant Pied, Just recessive pied and then both visually

now if one parent was just Split to Recessive pied I wouldn't of gotten as many different out comes

It seems when a bird is split to the gene You don't get as many visually as you do when it shows it visually

if that makes any sense :)

KTyne 06-01-2011 04:54 PM

Now I'm even more confused! So if a bird is split to recessive pied does that mean that it's Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied like P(dominant)p(recessive), or would it be like Dd(single factor dominant)pp(recessive).....
That's what is confusing me.

atvchick95 06-01-2011 05:29 PM

I don't know a single thing about the square thing - I learned the genetics of birds w/out it - just by reading about it

any budgie can be split to recessive pied - that doesn't make it a dominant pied too

but a Dominant pied can be split to recessive pied (well any mutation can be split to recessive pied except recessive pied of course)

When a bird is split to a mutation it means it carries the gene but you can not visually see it.

and to confuse you more a budgie can be visually all 3 Pieds so a budgie can visually be Dominant Pied, Recessive pied & Clear Flight pied all 3 being seen when looking at the bird

but they can not be split to dominant pied or clear flight pied - as both of those genes are dominant

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