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-   -   What kind is this English Budgie (https://www.talkbudgies.com/mutations-genetics/73968-what-kind-english-budgie.html)

my4turtles 07-05-2011 11:24 PM

What kind is this English Budgie
 
4 Attachment(s)
im trying to figure out what mutathion this 3 week old is its a light cinnamon with very very light yellow.

BirdCrazyJill 07-05-2011 11:38 PM

Omg that looks just like my Julio!! It's a yellow face type II grey spangle, maybe cinnamon... I'm not 100% sure but looks close to me!! :)

Here he was at the same age
https://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/.../Julio10-3.jpg

And here he is now at 6 months :)
https://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/.../Julio23-4.jpg

nev90 07-05-2011 11:47 PM

T1 yellow face grey spangle

my4turtles 07-06-2011 12:10 AM

what the difference between type 1 and type 2

atvchick95 07-06-2011 01:22 AM

Type 1 yellow face the yellow is on the face, it doesn't bleed into the chest area It can and often does go on to any white areas of the body like the white areas of tails, wings

type 2 yellow face bleeds into the body color

example If you have a Type 2 sky blue, the sky blue turns into a more of a sea foam green color

your baby isn't cinnamon Though, The spangle markings are "reversed" in that I mean they're light in the center Dark on the ends, Where normal markings are dark in the center and light on the ends - a Normal budgies wing markings are black outlined in white - Spangles are white outlined in black if that makes more sense

nev90 07-06-2011 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my4turtles (Post 847958)
what the difference between type 1 and type 2

The yellow on a type two is brighter and it will spread into the body colour and change it's shade

The yellow on a type one is much paler and spreads a lot less. It usually only spreads into the areas that would normally be white

nev90 07-06-2011 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atvchick95 (Post 847971)
The spangle markings are "reversed" in that I mean they're light in the center Dark on the ends, Where normal markings are dark in the center and light on the ends - a Normal budgies wing markings are black outlined in white - Spangles are white outlined in black if that makes more sense

Spangle markings are not reversed. The feather still has a white (or yellow) edge. The dark melanin is reduced at the top of the feather leaving only the edge of the dark area showing

atvchick95 07-06-2011 01:40 AM

:rolleyes:
it's just an easier way to explain it to people who do not understand it, Why confuse people more than they already are.

Every site I've ever read on about spangles ALL say its '"reversed" including SOME of the Budgie Society pages

my4turtles 07-06-2011 01:47 AM

Thank you so much that really helps i never did understand now i can understand what I'm looking at when i hold him. I'm keeping this little one i think his way to cute ha ha

Budgiebud 07-06-2011 07:54 AM

Wow...
 
Trust me I thought that both pictures are of the same bird.

Very beautiful though.

.

BirdCrazyJill 07-06-2011 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my4turtles (Post 847985)
Thank you so much that really helps i never did understand now i can understand what I'm looking at when i hold him. I'm keeping this little one i think his way to cute ha ha

Woohoo :) Make sure you share pics with us as he grows :D

my4turtles 07-06-2011 01:27 PM

Julio could be a twin haha, wow they do look alike...

RIPbudgies 07-07-2011 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atvchick95 (Post 847980)
[SIZE="4]

Every site I've ever read on about spangles ALL say its '"reversed" including SOME of the Budgie Society pages

No matter how many times something is written or on how many sites you find it, if it is wrong it is just plain wrong!

You do not make it easier for people to understand at all but rather keep the misinformation going and by doing so you increase the confusion.

As for the Type 1 and Type 2. This is the same thing. Yellowfaces comes in 3 mutant forms all of which are single or double factored. Using the type 1 and 2 does nothing to teach people the different mutants. In fact you confuse people because you designate all yellowface mutants into two categories based on level of suffusion.

Sometimes it not about which is easier to explain but rather explain it correctly in the first place and then maybe some of the misinformation around the place may begin to subside a bit. Whilst you keep doing it you only increase it's occourance and add to the confusion and dare I say it but in the eyes of those who know correct nomemclature you appear either misinformed and/or unknowledgable about the subject at hand.

I suggest you grab a Normal and a Spangle and have a really close look at the difference. Then it is a matter of whether you believe what you see or whether you choose to still believe what you read.[/SIZE]

atvchick95 07-07-2011 02:22 AM

I will explain things my way - which I've never had any one tell me I confused them more

you explain your way WHICH gives me a migraine trying to figure out what your saying

But Ya know what I've always kept that to myself

I will continue explaining things my way, its Easier for me and seems to be easier for others to understand instead of using Big technical scientific words that just makes people wish they never asked the dang question to start with because now they're more confused then when they started

and I HAVE looked at both a normal and a spangle its not like I don't have enough of them to compare to and YES the markings are REVERSED its lighter in the middle darker on the bottom for a Spangle, DARKER in the middle lighter on the bottom For a normal IF that is NOT REVERSED (BACKWARDS THAN NORMAL) then I don't know what is

I don't really care WHY its like that _ even though I already knew Didn't need no one to tell me I'm not stupid I've done plenty of research on the birds I OWN.

Every one has their own way of doing things. You keep doing yours and I'll keep doing mine. NO need to correct me when Technically I am not even wrong Just making things a little easier to understand for the new people IF they wanted it all technical and hard to understand They could of Googled it and found a million pages on the subject and over half of them would be so confusing it would make them want to jump off a bridge - which that is EXACTLY how I felt when I first started researching . But once some one explained the stuff in easy to understand TERMS or WORDS I caught on very fast and knew exactly what they were saying

nev90 07-07-2011 06:01 AM

First of all I believe that it is very important that when we write in a forum like this one that we give correct information and always be careful not to repeat incorrect information that has been written elsewhere

Spangle markings are not reversed. If you look at a spangle feather and a normal feather you will see the dark melanin has been removed from most of the feather leaving only a dark edge showing. The clear bit at the end of the feather remains the same. White has not been added it’s just that black has been removed. The same effect can be seen in an ino or a pied, the shade that would normally be showing has been removed leaving a clear area of white or yellow

Some of my thoughts on terminology:
I do think we should all try to be consistent and as the World Budgerigar Organization uses the terms yellow face mutant 1 & yellow face mutant 2 we should try to do the same.

Personally I think that using the word mutant when describing a mutation is cumbersome and unnecessary because they are all mutants. We could say “This is a spangle mutant” or a “Dominant pied mutant” or even say “Here is a blue mutant”. For as many years as I can remember the three yellow face mutations have been commonly known as type 1 yellow face, type 2 yellow face and golden face. To me adding the word mutant to the title doesn’t describe it any better it just uses more ink. I think it would be more logical to use the terms that are used by many breeders in this country which are: “Cream face, Yellow face & Golden face” to better distinguish between the three mutations.

I find that after calling a mutation by one name for over sixty years it is difficult to change but after all when I was young dilutes were known as whites, yellows or selfs. A recessive pied used to be called a Danish pied or a Harlequin & what we now call a clearflight pied was once called a Continental pied or a Dutch pied

Also clearwings were called white wings or yellow wings and I notice that the World Budgerigar Organization have not changed to the modern term

The term that I find most annoying is calling a pet type budgie an “American budgie”. Budgies are all Australian and there is no such thing as an American budgie. The use of this term by people who know it is not correct just sounds arrogant.

Sometimes show type budgies are referred to as English budgies but at least there is some excuse for this because the selective breeding that changed the exhibition birds’ appearance was mostly done in England. Interestingly I have never heard the term “English budgies” used in England. This seems to be a term that is used mostly in other countries

Budgiebud 07-07-2011 06:39 AM

Excellent explanation. You nailed the subject.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPbudgies (Post 848499)


No matter how many times something is written or on how many sites you find it, if it is wrong it is just plain wrong!

You do not make it easier for people to understand at all but rather keep the misinformation going and by doing so you increase the confusion.

As for the Type 1 and Type 2. This is the same thing. Yellowfaces comes in 3 mutant forms all of which are single or double factored. Using the type 1 and 2 does nothing to teach people the different mutants. In fact you confuse people because you designate all yellowface mutants into two categories based on level of suffusion.

Sometimes it not about which is easier to explain but rather explain it correctly in the first place and then maybe some of the misinformation around the place may begin to subside a bit. Whilst you keep doing it you only increase it's occourance and add to the confusion and dare I say it but in the eyes of those who know correct nomemclature you appear either misinformed and/or unknowledgable about the subject at hand.

I suggest you grab a Normal and a Spangle and have a really close look at the difference. Then it is a matter of whether you believe what you see or whether you choose to still believe what you read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nev90 (Post 848569)
First of all I believe that it is very important that when we write in a forum like this one that we give correct information and always be careful not to repeat incorrect information that has been written elsewhere

Spangle markings are not reversed. If you look at a spangle feather and a normal feather you will see the dark melanin has been removed from most of the feather leaving only a dark edge showing. The clear bit at the end of the feather remains the same. White has not been added it’s just that black has been removed. The same effect can be seen in an ino or a pied, the shade that would normally be showing has been removed leaving a clear area of white or yellow

Some of my thoughts on terminology:
I do think we should all try to be consistent and as the World Budgerigar Organization uses the terms yellow face mutant 1 & yellow face mutant 2 we should try to do the same.

Personally I think that using the word mutant when describing a mutation is cumbersome and unnecessary because they are all mutants. We could say “This is a spangle mutant” or a “Dominant pied mutant” or even say “Here is a blue mutant”. For as many years as I can remember the three yellow face mutations have been commonly known as type 1 yellow face, type 2 yellow face and golden face. To me adding the word mutant to the title doesn’t describe it any better it just uses more ink. I think it would be more logical to use the terms that are used by many breeders in this country which are: “Cream face, Yellow face & Golden face” to better distinguish between the three mutations.

I find that after calling a mutation by one name for over sixty years it is difficult to change but after all when I was young dilutes were known as whites, yellows or selfs. A recessive pied used to be called a Danish pied or a Harlequin & what we now call a clearflight pied was once called a Continental pied or a Dutch pied

Also clearwings were called white wings or yellow wings and I notice that the World Budgerigar Organization have not changed to the modern term

The term that I find most annoying is calling a pet type budgie an “American budgie”. Budgies are all Australian and there is no such thing as an American budgie. The use of this term by people who know it is not correct just sounds arrogant.

Sometimes show type budgies are referred to as English budgies but at least there is some excuse for this because the selective breeding that changed the exhibition birds’ appearance was mostly done in England. Interestingly I have never heard the term “English budgies” used in England. This seems to be a term that is used mostly in other countries

Very detailed views on the subject. It explains everything.

Both “RIPbudgies” and “nev90” replied to my threads regarding mutations. Although I am quite new to budgies, I never had any difficulty understanding their explanation.

No offense or disrespect to anyone. Just wrote what I sincerely thought was right in my opinion.

.

clifff123 07-07-2011 08:44 AM

;)
I am soooooo glad I never really got into mutations.
This can be argued forever among amateurs and experts (something like politics).
When I found out how confusing it was and soooooo many opinions, I gave up.
All I know is that my budgies are blue, white, yellow/black and green and they are gorgeous!!!!!


my4turtles 07-08-2011 06:02 PM

Thank you all for your input in this, i have spent some time looking at my birds.. and noticed a couple have feathers like this and never even realized :rolleyes:. I appreciated every ones imput

atvchick95 07-08-2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nev90 (Post 848569)
First of all I believe that it is very important that when we write in a forum like this one that we give correct information and always be careful not to repeat incorrect information that has been written elsewhere

Spangle markings are not reversed. If you look at a spangle feather and a normal feather you will see the dark melanin has been removed from most of the feather leaving only a dark edge showing. The clear bit at the end of the feather remains the same. White has not been added it’s just that black has been removed. The same effect can be seen in an ino or a pied, the shade that would normally be showing has been removed leaving a clear area of white or yellow

Some of my thoughts on terminology:
I do think we should all try to be consistent and as the World Budgerigar Organization uses the terms yellow face mutant 1 & yellow face mutant 2 we should try to do the same.

Personally I think that using the word mutant when describing a mutation is cumbersome and unnecessary because they are all mutants. We could say “This is a spangle mutant” or a “Dominant pied mutant” or even say “Here is a blue mutant”. For as many years as I can remember the three yellow face mutations have been commonly known as type 1 yellow face, type 2 yellow face and golden face. To me adding the word mutant to the title doesn’t describe it any better it just uses more ink. I think it would be more logical to use the terms that are used by many breeders in this country which are: “Cream face, Yellow face & Golden face” to better distinguish between the three mutations.

I find that after calling a mutation by one name for over sixty years it is difficult to change but after all when I was young dilutes were known as whites, yellows or selfs. A recessive pied used to be called a Danish pied or a Harlequin & what we now call a clearflight pied was once called a Continental pied or a Dutch pied

Also clearwings were called white wings or yellow wings and I notice that the World Budgerigar Organization have not changed to the modern term

The term that I find most annoying is calling a pet type budgie an “American budgie”. Budgies are all Australian and there is no such thing as an American budgie. The use of this term by people who know it is not correct just sounds arrogant.

Sometimes show type budgies are referred to as English budgies but at least there is some excuse for this because the selective breeding that changed the exhibition birds’ appearance was mostly done in England. Interestingly I have never heard the term “English budgies” used in England. This seems to be a term that is used mostly in other countries

I agree with the terms on Yellow face being type 1, type 2, Goldenface or Double Factor Yellow face (or Yellow Face Type 3 which I've seen it often called but I knew what they were talking about)

when I read or hear it being called a "mutant" it actually makes my skin crawl - The first thing that comes to my head EVERY TIME(Even though I know its not the case) is it's a Beast 2 things combined to make something icky
Or the other one is The Teenage MUTANT ninja turtles- they were "mutants" since they had chemicals poured on them as babies and turned them into Huge, Talking, Ninja Fighting Turtles - Really don't want that stuff associated with my yellow face birds - They're not Mutants they are birds with mutations but not "mutants"


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