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-   -   Does Golden Face change the body color like Yellow Face type 2 (https://www.talkbudgies.com/mutations-genetics/74355-does-golden-face-change-body-color-like-yellow-face-type-2-a.html)

atvchick95 07-14-2011 01:00 AM

Does Golden Face change the body color like Yellow Face type 2
 
I know I've read it some where before But I can't find it now, and I can't remember if it said it did or didn't.

so I was wanting to know does Golden face bleed into the body color changing it - Example if a Sky blue Budgie is a golden face does the yellow bleed into the body making the Sky blue look more like Sea green (like my Bubblegum and Jasmine in my signature(2 and 3rd birds from left front row) Or is it only Yellow Face type 2 that does it?

The pictures of them usually wash out their colors but both have very dark deep yellow faces. and like the pic down there shows its changed their normal sky blue color to the sea green color.


Also How do you know if a Cobalt is a Type 2 yellow face? does it change the body color as well? I know all the examples always use Sky blue(probably because its easier to see the "change" with lol) I don't think I have any Type 2 Cobalt blues, But for future References I'd like to know if it bleeds into their body color changing it at all.

I was able to find this about the Yellow face type 2 and Golden face- But I can't make head or tails of what they're meaning
Quote:

Yellowface Mutant 2 and Goldenface can be bred in single factor forms but it is desirable that only the double factor forms are exhibited as unavoidable confusion can be caused with single factor examples due to the heavily increased suffusion of yellow into the body colour which distorts the basic blue to green/blue shade.

RIPbudgies 07-14-2011 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atvchick95 (Post 851999)
I know I've read it some where before But I can't find it now, and I can't remember if it said it did or didn't.

so I was wanting to know does Golden face bleed into the body color changing it - Example if a Sky blue Budgie is a golden face does the yellow bleed into the body making the Sky blue look more like Sea green (like my Bubblegum and Jasmine in my signature(2 and 3rd birds from left front row) Or is it only Yellow Face type 2 that does it?

The pictures of them usually wash out their colors but both have very dark deep yellow faces. and like the pic down there shows its changed their normal sky blue color to the sea green color.


Also How do you know if a Cobalt is a Type 2 yellow face? does it change the body color as well? I know all the examples always use Sky blue(probably because its easier to see the "change" with lol) I don't think I have any Type 2 Cobalt blues, But for future References I'd like to know if it bleeds into their body color changing it at all.

I was able to find this about the Yellow face type 2 and Golden face- But I can't make head or tails of what they're meaning

Now don't go spitting the dummy here cause I am not having a go at you, ok. :)

The reason you cannot make head nor tail of what you quoted is because you, and many like you, are stuck on the Type 1 and Type 2 thing. This is a hang-over from the days before the true genetics and full scope of yellowfaces in general were worked out by such people as Papin (USA), Gray (UK), Duncker (GER), Taylor and Warner (UK) and Lamy (?UK).

Ken Gray (UK) author of 'Rainbow Budgerigars and consituent varieties' probably did the most to define the three mutant forms and also try to make the terms 'Mutant 1' and 'Mutant 2' part of common usage..... but old habits die hard.

Peter Bergman came along in the 90's with a brilliant article re the psittacine (yellow) pigment and redefined the way we think about the yellowface group especially the blues. It is now common amongst those who are genetically inclined to now use 'blue 1' to denote the common all garden blue and the term 'blue 2' to denote the double factored Mutant 1 Yellowface. :eek: Yup, bet that threw ya for a loop! If you can't find Peter's article I have a copy and can make it available to you if you wish. It is heavy ready though and at first I suspect you will throw your hands up in the air and say it is too hard.

All YF's will "bleed" as you put it, it is the degree to which they do so and whether or not people can see it. I have always have more than average eye sight and I guess that makes me lucky and that I can see subtle differences that most people miss.

From what I could see of your Bubblegum he appears in the pic to be a single factor Goldenface. If this is so then the continued use of the terms 'type 1' and 'type 2' have caused you to misidentify your bird and it will reflect in the breeding results and should you combine two different mutations together you will get results that to you limited understanding of yellowface genetics will appear to be against the rules for Mendelian genetics.

Budgiebud 07-14-2011 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPbudgies (Post 852013)


Now don't go spitting the dummy here cause I am not having a go at you, ok. :)

The reason you cannot make head nor tail of what you quoted is because you, and many like you, are stuck on the Type 1 and Type 2 thing. This is a hang-over from the days before the true genetics and full scope of yellowfaces in general were worked out by such people as Papin (USA), Gray (UK), Duncker (GER), Taylor and Warner (UK) and Lamy (?UK).

Ken Gray (UK) author of 'Rainbow Budgerigars and consituent varieties' probably did the most to define the three mutant forms and also try to make the terms 'Mutant 1' and 'Mutant 2' part of common usage..... but old habits die hard.

Peter Bergman came along in the 90's with a brilliant article re the psittacine (yellow) pigment and redefined the way we think about the yellowface group especially the blues. It is now common amongst those who are genetically inclined to now use 'blue 1' to denote the common all garden blue and the term 'blue 2' to denote the double factored Mutant 1 Yellowface. :eek: Yup, bet that threw ya for a loop! If you can't find Peter's article I have a copy and can make it available to you if you wish. It is heavy ready though and at first I suspect you will throw your hands up in the air and say it is too hard.

All YF's will "bleed" as you put it, it is the degree to which they do so and whether or not people can see it. I have always have more than average eye sight and I guess that makes me lucky and that I can see subtle differences that most people miss.

From what I could see of your Bubblegum he appears in the pic to be a single factor Goldenface. If this is so then the continued use of the terms 'type 1' and 'type 2' have caused you to misidentify your bird and it will reflect in the breeding results and should you combine two different mutations together you will get results that to you limited understanding of yellowface genetics will appear to be against the rules for Mendelian genetics.

Great explanation, as always.

.

atvchick95 07-14-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPbudgies (Post 852013)


Now don't go spitting the dummy here cause I am not having a go at you, ok. :)

The reason you cannot make head nor tail of what you quoted is because you, and many like you, are stuck on the Type 1 and Type 2 thing. This is a hang-over from the days before the true genetics and full scope of yellowfaces in general were worked out by such people as Papin (USA), Gray (UK), Duncker (GER), Taylor and Warner (UK) and Lamy (?UK).

Ken Gray (UK) author of 'Rainbow Budgerigars and consituent varieties' probably did the most to define the three mutant forms and also try to make the terms 'Mutant 1' and 'Mutant 2' part of common usage..... but old habits die hard.

Peter Bergman came along in the 90's with a brilliant article re the psittacine (yellow) pigment and redefined the way we think about the yellowface group especially the blues. It is now common amongst those who are genetically inclined to now use 'blue 1' to denote the common all garden blue and the term 'blue 2' to denote the double factored Mutant 1 Yellowface. :eek: Yup, bet that threw ya for a loop! If you can't find Peter's article I have a copy and can make it available to you if you wish. It is heavy ready though and at first I suspect you will throw your hands up in the air and say it is too hard.

All YF's will "bleed" as you put it, it is the degree to which they do so and whether or not people can see it. I have always have more than average eye sight and I guess that makes me lucky and that I can see subtle differences that most people miss.

From what I could see of your Bubblegum he appears in the pic to be a single factor Goldenface. If this is so then the continued use of the terms 'type 1' and 'type 2' have caused you to misidentify your bird and it will reflect in the breeding results and should you combine two different mutations together you will get results that to you limited understanding of yellowface genetics will appear to be against the rules for Mendelian genetics.


OOH that is what the Blue II on the budgie genetic calculator is - I'd click on the pic icon beside it but it just shows several pics of blue birds in general wasn't a explanation of what that itself meant

I'm going off topic for a second - With the above now known(to me anyway lol) (The blueII being a type of yellowface) Would I use that option when I'm using the calculator instead of using Bl. Yellowface - Because when I use that option I get 100% yellow face even if Just 1 parent is a yellow face & I know that isn't correct I will not get 100% yellow face when only 1 parent has a yellow face. and if I do would I just use it for the Yellow Face 1 (the one that predominantly stays on the mask) it also has a Bl.goldenface - but I've never used it since I'm not sure if any of mine are actually golden face or not but I have a feeling it would do the same as the Bl. yellow face and make the outcome 100% yellowface(does that work like that with the Golden face?)

And what really is the difference between calling them "mutant 1" or "type 1" if the meaning is the same and just a different term is used?

I know there are several types of yellow face I get that and I know how they work I know Type 1 (or I guess it would be your Mutant 1) is where the yellow basically stays on the mask, but it can "bleed" (or Spread) on to the white area's (talking blue series here since I don't really deal in green series) like on the smaller outer tail feathers, and even the wings Type 2 (Mutant 2) Bleeds/spreads into the body color changing a normal sky blue to make it look more sea green and The face is also darker on this type its more of a buttercup yellow where as the 1st one is more of a lemony yellow, Then you have the Golden face which I'm assuming is basically the same as the 2nd type only the face is even darker than the 2nd type like its more noticeably a different shade of yellow.. then there is the Double factor Yellow face which you wouldn't know your bird had that unless you bred it to one who you knew did not have a yellow face and got yellow face babies, Because the appearance of the Double Factor YF is the same as a "normal" White face and I know most articles say the Golden face can be in DF form and that is what is wanted- but I still haven't figured out how you tell if your bird is DF or sf golden face - I'd assume only way to tell is through breeding to a non yellow face?

Bubblegum is my little buddy who has been confusing me lately. When I first got him I thought he was your typical run of the mill yellow face 2 Sky blue grey wing when I got him I wasn't into breeding grey wings(still trying not to get so many but the harder I try the more I get lol) but now that I'm getting so many and I read more into the Grey wing His body color is not diluted in the least(which has had me bring up threads that maybe he's not the typical grey wing after all and now I've been told he looks like a Clear wing(but a "dirty version" of one) and I was thinking maybe hes a full body grey wing , Then the more I look at him and compare him to any of my yellow faces(now that I am getting more and have more to compare to) rather they're 1 or 2 His face is at least 2 shades Darker than any of theirs (except his Daughter Jasmine beside him in my siggy her's matches his except they have 2 different shades of cheek patches ) But I did breed him to a Non Yellow face to get Jasmine they had 4 babies including her she was the only visual grey wing the rest were either dominant pied Like their mom or a mix of Dominant and recessive pied Because both parents are split to Recessive pied but all 4 babies were visually yellow faces

The article - I searched for about 30 minutes last night and every link I clicked took me back to the same page Some pet website with no article - I started out on the **************** page because they had it linked on their site - Then I just started to Google it, and kept coming up empty handed

I don't think I left anything out If I did sorry (And sorry if I come off as a crazy woman lol I just have a hard time comprehending (always have) things so I have to have it put into easy to understand forms or my brain just doesn't get it.

And I hope this makes sense - I just got up a little bit ago and its been a circus around here since my feet hit the floor! and as I'm typing away I some how manage to spill a entire glass of Mt. Dew all over my cell phone, Home phone and half my computer desk :rolleyes: I think this is Monday and not Thursday lol

but at the end of the day Does a Golden face Bleed or spread into the body color changing its appearance like a Yellow face 2 does? (I know the yellow face 1 can spread but it doesn't ever seem to change the color of the body when it does since it basically stays to the white areas of the wings and sometimes the tails)

Budgiedin 07-14-2011 12:34 PM

Hey ATV!

I also searched for those articles last night, here are the links, they are part one and part two.
https://web.archive.org/web/200712311...r/yface01.html

https://web.archive.org/web/200801220...r/yface02.html

I had the same trouble finding it as you did, but finally one of the Google hits told where to find it, and then the link didn't work, and I had to copy and paste it in my browser, but once I found them, I added them to my favorites. :p

To answer your question about the "bleeding", yes, the Golden face does bleed into the body and turn the sky blue seafoam.

Part of the problem where people get confused about the yellow face genes, is because they think of them as "adding yellow" to blue birds. But what is really happening is that they are a mutation that damages the production of yellow, so they are really "taking away yellow" from green birds.

So a blue bird is really just a green bird that has damaged genes and can't make any yellow at all. And a yellow face bird is a green bird that has partially damaged genes, so it only makes SOME of the yellow. It ends up somewhere in between the green and the blue.

Oh, and also, I have a yf2 cobalt chick that is just starting to molt, so I will let you know what shade her body ends up being.:)

atvchick95 07-14-2011 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budgiedin (Post 852173)
Hey ATV!

I also searched for those articles last night, here are the links, they are part one and part two.
https://web.archive.org/web/200712311...r/yface01.html

https://web.archive.org/web/200801220...r/yface02.html

I had the same trouble finding it as you did, but finally one of the Google hits told where to find it, and then the link didn't work, and I had to copy and paste it in my browser, but once I found them, I added them to my favorites. :p

To answer your question about the "bleeding", yes, the Golden face does bleed into the body and turn the sky blue seafoam.

Part of the problem where people get confused about the yellow face genes, is because they think of them as "adding yellow" to blue birds. But what is really happening is that they are a mutation that damages the production of yellow, so they are really "taking away yellow" from green birds.

So a blue bird is really just a green bird that has damaged genes and can't make any yellow at all. And a yellow face bird is a green bird that has partially damaged genes, so it only makes SOME of the yellow. It ends up somewhere in between the green and the blue.

Oh, and also, I have a yf2 cobalt chick that is just starting to molt, so I will let you know what shade her body ends up being.:)

Thank you :) after a while of dead ends I was getting aggravated and had to go find something else to do LOL

I'll be looking forward to seeing if you yellow face 2 cobalt blue changes :)

ooh and how have you been it's been a while :) I know you have an exchange student with you for a bit, How's that going?

I've had to remind my self a few times that you were very busy this summer to keep the E-mails down until you weren't so busy :) but all my babies are weaned except the Male English(the "Battle" baby lol) He's being so stubborn I emailed the lady about 2 weeks ago with pics and updates haven't heard a word from her though. But I have seen him in the last 2 days nibbling at the Seeds So I'm planning on sending her an Email again tonight - Hopefully she responds- if not hope she read my disclaimer very well!

One of my babies Moved to Illinois Last week :)

Thanks again for the links - I'll go check them out.

Budgiedin 07-14-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atvchick95 (Post 852179)


ooh and how have you been it's been a while :) I know you have an exchange student with you for a bit, How's that going?

.

LOL! It's going very well, she gets along with our kids great! Leaving to go camping in two days, so I'm not supposed to be on the computer right now! :spy:

atvchick95 07-14-2011 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budgiedin (Post 852192)


LOL! It's going very well, she gets along with our kids great! Leaving to go camping in two days, so I'm not supposed to be on the computer right now! :spy:

Glad to hear all is going well, Have a good time camping :)

RIPbudgies 07-15-2011 02:09 AM

I have quoted your post and made the necessary comments within to help you assimilate the information better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atvchick95 (Post 852147)



OOH that is what the Blue II on the budgie genetic calculator is - I'd click on the pic icon beside it but it just shows several pics of blue birds in general wasn't a explanation of what that itself meant

You will find any good genetic program will have either Blue II or use the term double factor to represent YF M1 double factor bird.

I'm going off topic for a second - With the above now known(to me anyway lol) (The blueII being a type of yellowface) Would I use that option when I'm using the calculator instead of using Bl. Yellowface - Because when I use that option I get 100% yellow face even if Just 1 parent is a yellow face & I know that isn't correct I will not get 100% yellow face when only 1 parent has a yellow face. and if I do would I just use it for the Yellow Face 1 (the one that predominantly stays on the mask) it also has a Bl.goldenface - but I've never used it since I'm not sure if any of mine are actually golden face or not but I have a feeling it would do the same as the Bl. yellow face and make the outcome 100% yellowface(does that work like that with the Golden face?)

The Blue II is the term to denote the double factor Yellowface Mutant 1. So when you enter this term into the program the result will be 100% single factor Yellowface Mutant 1.

The “Bl.goldenface” means it is a single factor Goldenface.
The “Bl.yellowface” means it is a single factor Yellowface most likely Mutant 1


And what really is the difference between calling them "mutant 1" or "type 1" if the meaning is the same and just a different term is used?

The term “Type” has another meaning. Originally written as and in correct circles, still done today the words are Type I and Type II. They are used to denote the linkage between the Blue and dark factors. For example most people will write Dk Green/Blue, but is the bird a Dark Green/Blue Type I or a Dark Green/Blue Type II. There is a difference and it will be evident in the particular pairings. The terms Type I and Type II inform you were the dark factor was inherited from in a Dark Green/Blue bird. If inherited from an Green it will be Type I, if from a Blue then it will be Type II.

I know there are several types of yellow face I get that and I know how they work I know Type 1 (or I guess it would be your Mutant 1) is where the yellow basically stays on the mask, but it can "bleed" (or Spread) on to the white area's (talking blue series here since I don't really deal in green series) like on the smaller outer tail feathers, and even the wings Type 2 (Mutant 2) Bleeds/spreads into the body color changing a normal sky blue to make it look more sea green and The face is also darker on this type its more of a buttercup yellow where as the 1st one is more of a lemony yellow,

Now this is where your “Type 1 and Type 2” use comes unstuck.

You are classifying the Yellowface Mutant 1 as a Type 1 which is the single factor form and has a pale yellow face. It does has a certain amount of yellow ‘bleeding’ into the body but barely noticeable by most.

Then you classify the Yellowface Mutant 2 as a Type 2 which is the single factor form and has a Yellowface about double the colour of the face of YF M1, the yellow being stronger is more evident when ‘bleeding’ into the body. Now there is a double factor form of this bird and I guess under your rules of you must classify this as a Type 1.


Then you have the Golden face which I'm assuming is basically the same as the 2nd type only the face is even darker than the 2nd type like its more noticeably a different shade of yellow..

The Goldenface is in both a single and double factor form. You classify the single factor bird as a Type 2.

then there is the Double factor Yellow face which you wouldn't know your bird had that unless you bred it to one who you knew did not have a yellow face and got yellow face babies, Because the appearance of the Double Factor YF is the same as a "normal" White face

This bird you cite is the double factor form of the Yellowface Mutant 1 and is indeed a white face blue bird. You call this Type 3.

and I know most articles say the Golden face can be in DF form and that is what is wanted- but I still haven't figured out how you tell if your bird is DF or sf golden face - I'd assume only way to tell is through breeding to a non yellow face?

This is where your ‘type’ rule have led you. You are confused now on how to tell a sf and df Goldenface apart. Understandable because you are classifying three YF mutants in two groups based on suffusion alone. The sf and df form of Goldenface is quite distinct and I guess under your ‘type’ rules you would have to classify the df form as a Type 1.

Bubblegum is my little buddy who has been confusing me lately. When I first got him I thought he was your typical run of the mill yellow face 2 Sky blue grey wing when I got him I wasn't into breeding grey wings(still trying not to get so many but the harder I try the more I get lol) but now that I'm getting so many and I read more into the Grey wing His body color is not diluted in the least(which has had me bring up threads that maybe he's not the typical grey wing after all and now I've been told he looks like a Clear wing(but a "dirty version" of one) and I was thinking maybe hes a full body grey wing , Then the more I look at him and compare him to any of my yellow faces(now that I am getting more and have more to compare to) rather they're 1 or 2 His face is at least 2 shades Darker than any of theirs (except his Daughter Jasmine beside him in my siggy her's matches his except they have 2 different shades of cheek patches ) But I did breed him to a Non Yellow face to get Jasmine they had 4 babies including her she was the only visual grey wing the rest were either dominant pied Like their mom or a mix of Dominant and recessive pied Because both parents are split to Recessive pied but all 4 babies were visually yellow faces

It was I who told you that Bubblegum is most likely a dirty Clearwing. If fact I have just bred one myself, completely unplanned mind you. As it turns out the father is a sf Goldenface/Clearwing and the mum is a Sky Blue/Dilute. Parents are related in that it is a grandfather and grand-daughter paring. I also think that your bird is a sf Goldenface. Photos of blue birds though are hard to gauge so keep that in mind.

The article - I searched for about 30 minutes last night and every link I clicked took me back to the same page Some pet website with no article - I started out on the **************** page because they had it linked on their site - Then I just started to Google it, and kept coming up empty handed

I don't think I left anything out If I did sorry (And sorry if I come off as a crazy woman lol I just have a hard time comprehending (always have) things so I have to have it put into easy to understand forms or my brain just doesn't get it.

And I hope this makes sense - I just got up a little bit ago and its been a circus around here since my feet hit the floor! and as I'm typing away I some how manage to spill a entire glass of Mt. Dew all over my cell phone, Home phone and half my computer desk :rolleyes: I think this is Monday and not Thursday lol

but at the end of the day Does a Golden face Bleed or spread into the body color changing its appearance like a Yellow face 2 does? (I know the yellow face 1 can spread but it doesn't ever seem to change the color of the body when it does since it basically stays to the white areas of the wings and sometimes the tails)

As I stated previously ALL YF’s ‘bleed’ but do so based on which Mutant they are and whether they are the single or double factor form.


So to sum up I will list all the Yellowfaces firstly into the single and double factor forms of each mutation, in brackets I will use the ‘Type’ rule.

Single Factor Form

Goldenface………..(Type 2)
Yellowface M1……(Type 1)
Yellowface M2……(Type 2)

Double Factor Form

Goldenface………..(Type 1)
Yellowface M1……(Type 3)
Yellowface M2……(Type 1)

As you can see the Type rules don’t work!

atvchick95 07-15-2011 08:49 AM

Thanks :) with bubblegum I had a couple others also say he maybe Clearwing as well but since i bought him as an Adult from a lady on Craigslist who had 6 bird crammed into a dirty nasty cage I wouldn't even put a pet rock in, I don't know anything about him except what I'm finding out from breeding him.

I am not sure why my brain won't latch on to understanding the "mutant" word when I'm reading it I think its because the word actually makes me think of something disfigured (I know that's not how its meant but that is how my brain sees it)

and I think the reason I can't distinguish the 2 forms of Goldenface is because you don't see a whole lot of them in my area. The majority of yellow faces in my area or general surrounding area is The Yellow face that stays mainly on the body The one with the more pale yellow face.. Or the one that is a bit darker yellow on the face and changes the body color of a sky blue to make it look sea green but still the face itself is not extremely dark but darker than the pale yellow

It also doesn't help that most Breeders around here Colony breed and don't know what in the world they have. one guy an Old Man Who's been breeding probably since he was a small child - Has told me many times(and it actually makes my skin crawl) when i was looking for certain mutations in his flock he had for sale " it does not matter what color they are just throw them together and you'll get a bunch of colors" - now he didn't colony breed he caged bred but still he had no clue what in the world he had because he just tosses them together and gets an array of colors he may of Colony bred in the past but since I've known him (well been to his house like 3 times I don't really "know him" he puts them all in nasty little dirty rusted breeder cages :(

I read the article you suggested, But I'll have to read it several more times to grasp it. When they start going into the whole science thing the whole b1 B2 things I get so lost but I will eventually get it Or I hope so lol It didn't take me long to figure out how the mutations worked and I failed science class but Found sites that put it in easy to understand terms so I was able to understand it better

RIPbudgies 07-15-2011 09:03 AM

To try and help you I will post a couple of pics. These are of Goldenfaces only.

Father and daughter both in Cobalt. Single factor on left, double factor on right. The hen is still young here and has only moulted once.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSC04631.jpg

A single factor Cobalt baby D.O.B. 24 May 2011. She is also Clearwing.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...gies/ID456.jpg

The next series of photos are a comparison of single and double factors as babies. They are approx 5-6 weeks of age and both cobalts. In all photos the double factor is on the left and the single factor on the right. The double factor bird is the same one as in the first photo.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02879.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02880.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02882.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02883.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02884.jpg

atvchick95 07-15-2011 09:15 AM

Thank you :) Bubblegum and Jasmine both resemble your male in the 1st pic only the body didn't change to that dark of green So I think its safe to say they are both Sky blue Like I thought he was to start with and I knew She was because I've had her since she was born and I know what her feathers looked like from the start :giggle:

your 2nd pic does resemble his "greywing" baby I have right now well the wing color/pattern - mine isn't a yellow face- actually the "greywing" baby was the only one out of 4 who didn't have a yellow face. But since Bubblegum is Golden face and their mom is a Yellow face That was expected :)

and it looks like only the Single Factor Golden face Changes the body color?(by looking at the 1st pic) if so that's another way to tell if a Golden face is single or Double factor right? and by changing the body color I mean significantly where it can really be noticed like in your first picture where your males chest turned a shade of green while your females stayed cobalt blue (where hers is just kinda splotchy 2 toned at the top of her chest but not a significant change in body color like her dad)

The whole "bleeding" or spreading into the body color doesn't bother me at all (I know a lot of sites say its not something the show people want or look for) but since Mine aren't for showing it's perfectly fine with me that it changes their overall look - because since it does on some of mine I got some very Pretty birds who other wise would just look "normal" :)

oh and it would it be safe to say on a Yellow face That Bleeds/spreads into the body and changes the overall look, Would it also make it that shade of green (or similar) on a cobalt blue like it does for the Cobalt Blue Golden face sf?

I probably won't see these yellow face blue babies molt out because I'm not keeping any of them. But their blue is not sky blue, but to me it doesn't really look cobalt either BUT i do think its because they're yellow face. and All of my yellow face budgies have been in the sky blue category so I've never actually seen in person a cobalt yellow face but If I decide to keep one or get one in the future at least then I'd know what to look for.

I know I make all this stuff harder on my self than it needs to be :o but for some reason I over think it all it is nothing for me to go into my birds room pull up a chair and just start looking at them and saying well maybe he's not the mutation I thought he was, or maybe she's this instead of that. Or I go through my records and see x pair had this form of baby and my mind knows how it was made yet I over think it so much i start second guessing my self. But I guess that is natural when most of your stock you have no clue what they're hiding . but Soon that won't be such a problem because I keep at least 1 baby from each breeding season so Eventually I will know ALL the backgrounds to my birds or at least more than half of them lol

sorry for rambling and you have very pretty birds :)

Budgiebud 07-15-2011 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPbudgies (Post 852638)
To try and help you I will post a couple of pics. These are of Goldenfaces only.

Father and daughter both in Cobalt. Single factor on left, double factor on right. The hen is still young here and has only moulted once.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSC04631.jpg

A single factor Cobalt baby D.O.B. 24 May 2011. She is also Clearwing.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...gies/ID456.jpg

The next series of photos are a comparison of single and double factors as babies. They are approx 5-6 weeks of age and both cobalts. In all photos the double factor is on the left and the single factor on the right. The double factor bird is the same one as in the first photo.

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02879.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02880.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02882.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02883.jpg

https://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/DSC02884.jpg

Great explanation and beautiful pictures. :)

.

atvchick95 07-15-2011 09:49 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Grr here I go over thinking again lol I so need to change my name To " I over think things too much" :giggle:

but I was just in the birds room I was taking a pic of one of my English Babies - And I looked over at bubblegum he's actually darker than his pictures make him out to be - in my signature him and Jasmine's "green" are the exact same - in person its not like that his is a whole lot darker, he has the dark green color on his chest mid way down, then it goes into the blue shade then his rump is the same darkish green as the top of his chest then the blue comes in towards the end where the tail comes out And I thought I was going to get the perfect pic to show it - I turned my flash off and everything Then as soon as I aimed my camera at him - it was over He took off to the back of the cage and wouldn't turn back around :/

but attached is two older pics(prob 2-3 months old) of his underside - it shows the Shade of green a little more better (as in how I see it in person) but not sure if you can see the blue area well enough in either picture to determine if he's cobalt or Sky blue though

But Jasmine's is pretty much true to color(in my signature) She's more of a brighter Green Almost a Florescent green shade and when she was a baby her blue before it changed was light Like sky blue is. so I'm fairly certain she is sky blue technically


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