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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.
Thread Description:Colourful (tail) display while preening

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Old 07-18-2011, 06:11 PM
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Default New Mutation(s)?

Hallo All,

Good to be on-line again....

Was wondering if the experts can tell me if this is a typical new mutation?

Has anyone seen "Spangle-type markings" like these extend into the tail feathers before?

New Mutation(s)?-budgy0711_1000168e1s.jpg

New Mutation(s)?-budgy0711_1000172e1s.jpg

New Mutation(s)?-budgy0711_1000174e1s.jpg

Some other questions I had on the subject are:

1) What type of feather-pattern / colour change(s) would indicate the start (re-birth, for others that have disappered) of any new mutation?...and how would a breeder know if it's new, except by comparison with existing mutations maybe?

2) Knowing that the majority of the current mutations (i.e. deviations from the "normal" Green...with exceptions being the recent Anthracite occurence in mid-1990's, maybe the more recent Dusk, Brown-wing among others & the very old variations, e.g. Buttercup, Lemon & Yellow between 1870 and 1910)... most occurred during the early 20th century (between 1910 and 1948,when the Lacewing arose)....why then has such "natural mutating" ceased?

..the question is...If these mutations arose back then (& given the "general rule" that mutations cannot be bred on purpose)...why cannot it occur today still?

Maybe the "Lacewing" producing occurences (so-called "cross-over") are examples of "ongoing mutatations" that do occur...but aren't we all "missing some"..when it actually happens; by failure to recoqnise?

Why wouldn't new mutations appear at least once in a decade?...has the genetic pool been depleted / have it become "saturated" (given the possible variations)...dare I ask, is it a result of current breeding practise / lack of recognition by the WBO and other organisations?

It would be good to hear what the experts breeders have to say on this...

3) Am I lucky with the above example...or is it just a "good example of a 'YF TII Cobalt Spangle' bird preening itself from it's uropygial (preen) gland...?!"

EITHER-WAY...I HOPE YOU ENJOYED SHARING IN THIS COLOURFUL DISPLAY...

..IT SURE MADE MY DAY LAST SUNDAY.....I was fortunate to have camera ready, when "Black-Cap" came across to "show-off" a bit!!..

Awaiting Ur comments?
C U later,
JacodK

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  #2  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:37 PM
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no, and don't let me discourage you, but I doubt that's a new mutation...
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:57 PM
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Your bird look quite normal for a yellow face spangle to me.

New mutations won't have stopped happening but most changes are very slight so they are not recognized as a new mutation, just a variation of an existing type. When a new mutation does occur it takes a long time to establish and be recognized by the World Budgerigar Organisation. Many of the mutations that are gazetted as happening around the same time may have been around for a long time before they were given the official stamp. Some may even have existed in the wild population but have been so rare that they were not seen. Some of these mutations could have been carried in a split form by some of the captured birds
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:47 PM
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Julios tail feather look a little like that, just don't have such a prominent "spangle outline" yet (he's only 7 months)... Black Cap is beautiful though!! How did you come up with that as a name for him? Shouldn't it be Yellow Cap? ;giggle:
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:02 PM
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Yes Jill,

It's an odd name...but as a baby he had very dark "merged bands" across the back of the head...just like a "black-cap"....

...now that he's aged / moulted ..the YF gene seems to let the yellow lighten/brigthen-up even more, but a little bit of the headbars are still visible...

Here are 2 past baby pictures:
New Mutation(s)?-budgy02-2011_0098ed1.jpg

New Mutation(s)?-budgy02-2011_0184e1.jpg

So your bird Julio also has such tail markings?...do U have a picture?

Thanks for now, stay well!
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
Your bird look quite normal for a yellow face spangle to me.

New mutations won't have stopped happening but most changes are very slight so they are not recognized as a new mutation, just a variation of an existing type. When a new mutation does occur it takes a long time to establish and be recognized by the World Budgerigar Organisation. Many of the mutations that are gazetted as happening around the same time may have been around for a long time before they were given the official stamp. Some may even have existed in the wild population but have been so rare that they were not seen. Some of these mutations could have been carried in a split form by some of the captured birds
Thx Nev (trust that you're doing good!),

I would have thought that if feather markings spread to different parts of the body...and creates different colour / patterns it ought to qualify (not that I expected "Black-Cap" to have been a new mutation...I had my doubts)...

Would such new mutations be tested for DNA correlation,etc to ensure it's not a variation of an existing"?

Good to know...I'll keep on trying for "Anthracite"...how do U like "Thunder" (as below)?...he has quite dark colours...could he be carrying the "violet" factor (I hear they look "dirty" as young birds?)..."Anthracite"?, not quite there yet though!

New Mutation(s)?-budgy0711_1000036e1s.jpg

Stay well & enjoy the day!
jdk

PS- I just had to stick to some "family-related" name, his mom is "Cloudy" with sisters (I think) "Foggy" & "Hazy"!..latter both Greywings..
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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Both thesebirds are beautiful. I haven't seen a spangle so lovely as thunder. let me know when your are breeding with him. I want to see his babies? Maybe I can make a plan to get some of his babies. English or American?
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:42 PM
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Yes Dries,

I was surprised at the darkness in feather of "Thunder"...unfortunately he (but since this photo its cere now appear to show more like a hen?) ...is "pet-type"....

It's always a wish of mine to get such colours (of the pet-type) in the show-budgie...but it seems to be tough....

Anyway I was hoping "Thunder" dark shade turns out to be "violet", but one never knows?...will c..

Oh, your new "Grey Spangle" babies really looks nice...and large, even the head-width and size at this age appear to be not "below-Show standard"...as I understand the babies do "size-up" with age, so these ones can only improve!

Enjoy ur breeding....will show pics in few months' time of her(his) babies...

C U,
Jacodk

PS-Ur way ahead of me itoshow-breeding...my first show-type babies are due in next few weeks only!
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacoRBow_RSA View Post
Yes Dries,

I was surprised at the darkness in feather of "Thunder"...unfortunately he (but since this photo its cere now appear to show more like a hen?) ...is "pet-type"....

It's always a wish of mine to get such colours (of the pet-type) in the show-budgie...but it seems to be tough....

Anyway I was hoping "Thunder" dark shade turns out to be "violet", but one never knows?...will c..

Oh, your new "Grey Spangle" babies really looks nice...and large, even the head-width and size at this age appear to be not "below-Show standard"...as I understand the babies do "size-up" with age, so these ones can only improve!

Enjoy ur breeding....will show pics in few months' time of her(his) babies...

C U,
Jacodk

PS-Ur way ahead of me itoshow-breeding...my first show-type babies are due in next few weeks only!
Thanks. They do size-up quite a lot, but I"ve been to Molketins place and whow his birds are lovely. No wonder he is one of our top breeders for a very long time.
Good luck with your breeding.
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