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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.
Thread Description:4 Dries, Budgiebud and Show Judges

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  #1  
Old 08-07-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)

Hi Budgiebud / Dries,

With reference to another thread (refer https://talkbudgies.com/showthread.ph...688#post858688)...I promised I'll post some pictures of babies from my Pet-dad x Show-mom pairing.

It would be great if you,breeding and genetic experts (also show judges) can offer some comments on the prospects of these two babies, given their genetics / mutations....will they have any chance on the show bench?...

..and if not, it will be good to understand better what are required for the bench....these are my first 2 (albeit "mixed") show-type babies...

Here are photos of the 1st baby: "Spearmint" (YF Opaline Cobalt)...
Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0006e1s.jpg

Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0027e1s.jpg

Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0038e1s.jpg

..pictures of 2nd baby, as well as mom and dad to follow...

They have their mother's look don't they?!

Thanks 4 now,

Jacodk

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Last edited by JacoRBow_RSA; 08-07-2011 at 06:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2011, 06:00 PM
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..and here is baby number 2: "Candy-Floss"

Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0003e1s.jpg

Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0019e1s.jpg

Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy0811_0022e1s.jpg

..mom & dad to follow..
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2011, 06:08 PM
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...and finally Show-Mom: "Bubbles"
Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy04-11_0142e1s.jpg

....as well as Pet-dad: "Rainbow"
Like Baby - Like Mom (Pet-dad x Show-mom)-budgy03-2010_0101e1.jpg

I did notice however that the eggs of the "Show-budgie" Hens were much larger than those of the "pet-budgie" type....my guess is at least 25% to 30% larger...!

Any pointers on the sex of these 2 babies...

Thx to all,

C U
Jacodk
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:02 PM
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Jaco -- CandyFloss and Spearmint are both darling!! Also love the names.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacoRBow_RSA View Post
Hi Budgiebud / Dries,

With reference to another thread (refer https://talkbudgies.com/showthread.ph...688#post858688)...I promised I'll post some pictures of babies from my Pet-dad x Show-mom pairing.

It would be great if you,breeding and genetic experts (also show judges) can offer some comments on the prospects of these two babies, given their genetics / mutations....will they have any chance on the show bench?...

..and if not, it will be good to understand better what are required for the bench....these are my first 2 (albeit "mixed") show-type babies...

Here are photos of the 1st baby: "Spearmint" (YF Opaline Cobalt)...
Attachment 23883

Attachment 23884

Attachment 23885

..pictures of 2nd baby, as well as mom and dad to follow...

They have their mother's look don't they?!

Thanks 4 now,

Jacodk
Thank you JacoRBow for posting the pictures.


Well, a lot comes to mind, let’s see if I can remember all.


When you say show mom, do you say that because of her size or you have acquired her from a good show breeder. You must be aware that there is a lot of difference between a big budgie and a show quality budgie. Even a show pair will lose feather quality and size over time, if bread without proper knowledge and good food/supplements.

"Gerald S Binks" mentions that unstinting good management and buying in outcrosses frequently is a key to show winners, otherwise one produces small birds, if the stud becomes too closely related. He advises to sell 10 birds in order to buy 1.

Breeding and taking own birds to show bench level is a very long and hard work and requires a lot of knowledge. Personally, I don’t think that the combination of pet and show will produce bench quality budgies. I paired English male to pet female. It produced good size budgies with chicks bigger than mom. Moms had to stand at higher level to feed the chicks in the fourth week or so. But still the chicks were not as good as the cock. Never done it the other way round, English hen and pet cock. What do you see in term of size and quality for your chicks from this pair?

Returning to hobby was nowhere as I thought it would be and I am unable to acquire some good foundation birds. I have attached some pictures though. Last time I owned a bird was in 80’s and a lot has changed since then.

As far as the requirements for the bench are concerned, it requires a lot of knowledge, experience and knowhow to control the genetics. “Nev” and “RipBudgies” are your best bet here. I can only suggest reading the bible of show breeding, “The Challenge” Breeding Championship Budgerigars, by "Gerald S Binks". It is considered by many as the finest book on all aspects of the show breeding hobby.

I have English and pet pairs in breeding cages currently. Although there is a lot of difference in the size of the birds, there is not much difference between the eggs sizes though.

Best of luck with your endeavor. I wish you every success in the hobby.

.

Last edited by Budgiebud; 10-15-2011 at 12:36 PM.
  #6  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:58 AM
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Thanks for the replies Deborah / BudgieBud..!

Glad U liked the names as I'm running out of "ideas" for names...so I'm trying to stick to "similar as dad/mom names" for the babies...sort of like in a TV sequel?!

Yes, good to hear your views Budgiebud....have U stopped doing "show-breeding" then some time back?....I'll try finding the reference book that you've supplied...sounds a good read...and we know it will be a challenge?!

Yes, I acquired "Bubbles" (& her sister) from a pet store that gets show-birds directly from a show-breeder (who I know also, but haven't visited due to distance)...

...so I'm certain she's a Show-type...whether that is of high quality I can't tell...

I was however given this good advice (from retirred show-breeder) that it's always good, when you wish to buy a show-type bird (say as nest mate for a good quality of your own).... is to take your own bird with in a show cage....

...then ask the "seller" (at his/her place) to setup a few "examples"similarly in a show-cage....

...then more than other times you'll quickly see the difference between yours and the "new buy"...whether they compliment each other / sizes, etc...

Oh, your "Matkoo" bud looks just like the Hen from another "Pet-Dad x Show-Hen" pairing I've "setup"...I know it happens more by good fortune than my doing, given the colony breeding....

...only reason for pairing such up, was to see the outcome in babies & whether it's possible to "transfer more colour" from the pet-type into the "show-type" without loosing too much show quality....

...and to size-up (sounds like an American McMeal offer) my current pet-type birds...will see if it helps...?

Well at least for now it appears that babies are very close to same size as mom "Bubbles" so I'm glad...but hey, it could have been different as well?!

Will try post some pictures when they're older...
Thx 4 now
Jdek

PS - Any guesses on sex, and markings for these 1 xSpangle Opaline & 1x Opaline babies?..maybe these would have been "disqualified" for such reasons?

PS - Yip, nice quality birds in the pictures you've supplied....I think the show-breeder of sisters "Bubbles" & "Crystal" wanted to get rid of the "flecking in the frontal head feathers"?
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:53 PM
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Well, I brought breeding germs from London , but as there were no show breeders or show breeding competitions in our part of the world, my breeding endeavour used to be for fun only and to see what produces what and so on. I simply love these birds.

You may have different experience, but personally I don’t think that colony breeding can produce bench quality birds.

Good you are experimenting with your pairs. It will help a lot in learning the outcomes.

Sure I will love to see the pictures of the babies to know the size.

I am not sure about the sex of the babies. Try posting some close-ups of the face/beak.

Good Luck!

.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:04 PM
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You have the most amazing looking birds
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:59 PM
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Jaco, oh the most beautiful budgies. I so jealous
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:11 PM
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Beautiful birds. I like Candy-floss. I know too little about the show birds to give any real comments about the quality of the birds, but the people I've talk to say that it will 3 - 4 generations to get close to quality birds from a pairing show x pet. These type of pairings will help to improve the size of your pet birds though. Keep us updated.
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