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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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  #1  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:29 PM
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Default What genes does these young carry?

Finally I got some babies from a FBC Greywing (Hen) x "Greywing Spangle" (cock) pairing.

Can you help with the genetics of the babies.

Just showing 2 of the 4 babies...didn't take pictures of the other two babies, but these were spangle blue birds.

Here are baby 1:
What genes does these young carry?-budgy1011_0160e1s.jpg

..and baby 2:
What genes does these young carry?-budgy1011_0221e1s.jpg

What genes does these young carry?-budgy1011_0224e1s.jpg

The parents (from breeding cage breeding) are:
"Cotton-Blue" (Hen)-
What genes does these young carry?-budgy10-2010_0074ed1.jpg

...and dad "MilkyWay"-
What genes does these young carry?-july-2010_0059e1.jpg

I'm getting more and more of these babies having lightly-marked wings ... would there be any cinnamon gene in these babies?

..but the "bright-body colour" throws me for a spin...as these can't be "greywings" or "dilutes"?.....whilst the other babies were Spangle (from dad)..I'm confused on these two?!

Any help pse...thx once again!
JacodK

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Old 10-25-2011, 09:02 PM
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Oh im not good with greywings and dilutes and such.
But i do know that you will get cinnamon chicks if the male is split for it. if he is not split for cinnamon then you cannot get cinnamon chicks. Male chicks will be split for cinnamonn if the hen is cinnamon..this applies for opaline as this is a sex-linked gene
Hope this helps
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:23 AM
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Spangles often have markings as light as these chicks. Are you sure the dad is a greywing spangle?

If any of the chicks are cinnamon they will be female
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
Spangles often have markings as light as these chicks.
Hi Nev90,

Thx for the reply...I'm glad these light-wing-marked spangle birds aren't unusual...to the experts that is....maybe I'm just having trouble understanding /identifying what I expect to be visually apparent in the mixed "dil" genetic birds....

...thinking (possibly incorrectly so) that either gradual changes will occur between these genes (e.g. the one affecting the other when in combination, like “washing out of the spangle wing-markings” to become almost clear; even in such spangle “grand-children”) or else that (more of a hope maybe) the recessive "dil-cw"(clearwing-white wing, being part of the fbc greywing hen, in this case) will be showing through at some stage....

...especially given "Cotton-Blue" (see original post pic above), the first of such3 x FBC Greywing hens to which the cock (Milky Way) was paired up with?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
Are you sure the dad is a greywing spangle?
In answer to Nev90 enquiry, more about "MilkyWay", the (dad) cock birds' background:
With reference to the "Gradual colour changing cock-bird", called "Yellow-wing Spot" (see post: https://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=79256)

This "Yellow-wing Spot" cock bird, the son of Milky Way (of whom I'm very certain on offspring), recently gave me "greywing" hens...when paired up with "Cloudy" (YF "Sky- or Cobalt Blue" Dilute Opaline Greywing):

Here is the latter pairing again:-
Yellow WingSpot-
What genes does these young carry?-9months_budgy1011_0043e1s.jpg

Cloudy-
What genes does these young carry?-july-2010_0069e1.jpg

...and two of their babies:
Dusk & Blue-Rain
What genes does these young carry?-budgy0811_0076e1s.jpg

What genes does these young carry?-budgy0811_0013e1s.jpg

As result I'm close to having 100% certainty that Milky Way was the Greywing carrier ....as the mother (refer next picture of "Peppermint"), albeit knowing she has "Opaline" (from which "Yellow-wing Spot", boy baby got the Opaline gene and in turn passed it on to the grand-baby hens)..she did not show any greywing genetics (neither did any of her sisters/dad, etc either) ...
Here she is:
What genes does these young carry?-budgy05-2010_0037e1.jpg

So as I understand the only way the most recent hen babies from "Yellow wing-spot" could have been greywings (at least “Dusk” is dil-gw) was that he himself as well as dad Milky Way carried such gene.

"Yellow-Wing Spot" (the ‘color changing bird’) could however have inherited some "pied" from either parents...giving rise to such “striped/spotted” yellow (YF influence) body colour patterns….

...origin from "Peppermint", his mom, that was (probably split)/ Recessive pied.... BUT COULD BOTH HE AND MOM HAVE BEEN SPLIT FOR PIED?...if only Peppermint (his mom) & Choc-Chip (grand-mom) carried it?...thus being hidden (dormant waiting to appear, if mated into correct pairing?)

If these changing body colour were a result of some “remnant pied" it ought to have come from BOTH PARENTS, being recessive,… correct?..

..if so, MilkyWay must also carry pied (refer "green chest spot") in split form (or masking it, with its odd almost "all yellow body colour")...

..no wonder the above hen- grand-children babies (Dusk & Blue-Rain) then shows both "greywing" and "opaline" (as well as YF from dad, MilkyWay, of course)...

..BUT IT STILL MAKES ME WONDER WHEN AND IF DAD'S (Milky Way) GREYWING GENE WILL APPEAR from this post's original pairing with the "FBC Greywing" hen (Cotton-Blue) and. WHY... thus far only spangles appeared (from 2 nests, i.e. 9 babies)?

Maybe this history gives more insight...DOES THIS MEAN that for recessive genes (such as dil-cw and dil-gw) there's a lower statistical chance of getting such babies VISUALLY (in presence of a "more dominant and probably highly in-bred" gene, such as spangle)... even if both parents carries such dil-gw recessive gene, as I suggested to exist in this post's parents?

Any comments or corrections on the above pse do so...

Thanks,
jacodk

PS-to determine Milky-Way chance of being split Cinnamon as well...

I'll try keeping some "cinnamon-looking" chicks to determine sex and see if any turns out to be hens?....

..this could then make him a "Yellow-faced Violet Cobalt Blue Spangle Recessive Pied /Greywing / Cinnamon" bird...maybe "dilute" is also in "his mix"...thus his name was a good selection after-all...!!
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Last edited by JacoRBow_RSA; 11-15-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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