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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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Old 10-27-2011, 07:01 PM
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Default splits carried genertion to generation

Does the split gene carry generation to generation? For instance if I breed a pure blue normal to a pure green normal all the green babies will be split to blue. If none of these green/blue offspring and there offspring never produce a blue bird, is the split gene still being carried or is it lost after the first generation or is it carried on forever until eventually a blue baby is born? before anyone answers I do understand about sex linked, etc. I just simply want to know if the split carries generation to generation.

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Old 10-27-2011, 07:22 PM
Jimm-V
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1st generation will produce 50% splits.

For example,

Green split to blue x Green split to blue = 25% Green, 25% Blue and 50% Green split to blue

So the 25% Green showed above will not have any split to blue. You will never know which Greens are split or no split until you breed the budgies. And pure chance comes into play here.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:04 PM
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Default split question

So if I understand your response, there is no guarantee that the split will ALWAYS be passed but rather it is a probability versus a guarantee. I have been told that the split will ALWAYS be passed and I have been told that it is purely chance. Can you shed some light on that? The reason I am interested is that I have some pedigreed birds with pedigrees that go back to their grandparents. According to the pedigree there is some really good looking birds (splits) waiting to come out and I want to pair accordingly.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:25 PM
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For sex-linked mutations, there are 100% chance the splits are carried in the male offsprings and NOT for females (must be visual and cannot be split). These sex-linked mutations are albino, lutino, opaline, cinnamon, slate and fallow. For fallows, it refers to GERMAN fallows (with iris rings in the eyes) and not ENGLISH fallows (with NO iris rings in the eyes).

For non sex-linked mutations, males and females will carry the split form. But each gene must come from each of the parents to produce an offspring of similar mutation. Non sex-linked are greywings, recessive pieds, Texas clearbody, clearwings, dilutes.

From generations to generations, the split mutation will diminish gradually in percentage. Like from 50% to 25% to 12.5% depending on the parent's mutation at the time of breeding.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimm-V View Post
For sex-linked mutations, there are 100% chance the splits are carried in the male offsprings and NOT for females (must be visual and cannot be split). These sex-linked mutations are albino, lutino, opaline, cinnamon, slate and fallow. For fallows, it refers to GERMAN fallows (with iris rings in the eyes) and not ENGLISH fallows (with NO iris rings in the eyes).

For non sex-linked mutations, males and females will carry the split form. But each gene must come from each of the parents to produce an offspring of similar mutation. Non sex-linked are greywings, recessive pieds, Texas clearbody, clearwings, dilutes.

From generations to generations, the split mutation will diminish gradually in percentage. Like from 50% to 25% to 12.5% depending on the parent's mutation at the time of breeding.


hey so im wondering about the lutino/albino sex linked thing. I have 2 lutinos and im not sure what sex they are yet but the breeder said the mum was lutino and the dad wasnt, so will that make babies boys or girls?
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bec-eee View Post
hey so im wondering about the lutino/albino sex linked thing. I have 2 lutinos and im not sure what sex they are yet but the breeder said the mum was lutino and the dad wasnt, so will that make babies boys or girls?
Mum was lutino and the dad wasn't......nope zero lutino babies, but male babies will be ALL split to ino (albino, lutino, creamino are ino)
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimm-V View Post
Mum was lutino and the dad wasn't......nope zero lutino babies, but male babies will be ALL split to ino (albino, lutino, creamino are ino)
Okay so you're saying that my lutino babies that i bought will both be males? my 2 lutino babies mum was a lutino which is why i was questioning your statement lol. unless the breeders i bought them from who have been breeding for 12 years are wrong...
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bec-eee View Post
Okay so you're saying that my lutino babies that i bought will both be males? my 2 lutino babies mum was a lutino which is why i was questioning your statement lol. unless the breeders i bought them from who have been breeding for 12 years are wrong...
If offsprings turned out as lutino when mum is lutino and dad isn't meant the dad is split for ino. In this case, the babies can be both sexes, that is, either male or female.

Lutino mum x Dad (split for ino) = 50% Lutinos + 50% Normals split for ino

The 50% Lutinos will get half males and half females.
The 50% Normals split for ino will get half males and half females (no split for hens)
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wannabedivin View Post
Does the split gene carry generation to generation? For instance if I breed a pure blue normal to a pure green normal all the green babies will be split to blue. If none of these green/blue offspring and there offspring never produce a blue bird, is the split gene still being carried or is it lost after the first generation or is it carried on forever until eventually a blue baby is born? before anyone answers I do understand about sex linked, etc. I just simply want to know if the split carries generation to generation.
It helps to use punnet squares with a capital letter designating a dominant gene and a small letter designating a recessive gene. For example, green (G) is dominant to blue (b).

In your example, "pure" green (GG) x "pure" blue (bb) = 100% visual greens split to blue (Gb). The blue bird passed one of its two recessive blue genes down to its offspring.

The mutations for Gb's offspring will depend upon whether its mate is GG, Gb or bb. Note that the boldface "b" gene came from Gb, not its mate.

.........G.....b
G.......GG...Gb
G.......GG...Gb

.........G.....b
G.......GG...Gb
b.......bG...bb

.........G.....b
b.......bG...bb
b.......bG...bb

You can see here that statistically, Gb will pass down its G gene to 1/2 of its chicks and pass down its b gene to the other 1/2, regardless of the mate's mutation. If Gb only produces one chick, which inherits G, the b is lost. But if the lone chick inherits the b, that chick will have a 50/50 chance of passing its b gene down to its offspring.

I hope my explanation makes sense. I'm pretty tired right now.

Last edited by SusanBudgies; 10-28-2011 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:51 PM
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It's all a game of percentages. Each parent passes on 1 gene from each of it's pairs of genes. That makes a 50% chance of each gene they carry being passed on. If you breed a split bird to one with only the dominant version (such a green split to blue to a green that is not split) then you have a 50% chance of the offspring carrying the recessive gene (blue in this case) but you will not see it so you can't confirm it's there. The next generation may also have a 50% chance or a 0% chance of the gene appearing in their offspring depending if the previous generation got the recessive gene or not. Since you don't know you can only calculate the odds that the gene got passed on through each generation which will get lower and lower.

Sometimes something is eliminated in 1 generation and sometimes it shows up 8 generations later. Unless you make certain crosses that you know will show recessive genes you may never know if the gene is there or not. It could be 10 years until you see it if you keep breeding birds with dominant genes. I've had show rabbits with pedigrees of over 20 generations so at least 10 years, possibly 20 or 30 years, throw stuff that just had us scratching our heads on where that came from. I've gotten chocolates out of lines that were all black on the pedigrees because that breed of rabbit should be all black going as far back as when they were imported to the US and japanese harlequin out of 2 completely separate, unrelated lines that did not show any sign of it anywhere on even extended pedigrees and the breeders I got them from had never seen it in their breedings. When I breed horses it's even more extreme because a horse can live and produce foals for 20-30 years so a color can show up from 100s of years back. Sometimes you get colors that even predate the creation of that breed like white patches on registered horses who can not have a white patch on the body over the size of a quarter in order to enter the registry and be recognized as that breed. 100s of years and dozens of registered generations can go by without seeing those white spots until the genetics line up just right. Or you may never see anything except exactly what the parents show. It's impossible to know until you try it.
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