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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics


Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:55 PM
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Default Rainbow budgie & blue series double factor spangle

I tried googling for photos of rainbow budgie. The photos are not specific as it has other mutations, making it really difficult to determine if it is a rainbow budgie.

If anyone has a photo of rainbow budgie, could you post and share?

Thanks.

In addition, I have seen before a violet double factor spangle, an all sky blue violet bird. Since the violet gene is commonly associated with the blue series, would it be reasonable to say that there should be a blue series double factor spangle? Something like an all blue bird? Whether sky blue or cobalt.. Would this be true? If this is true, does anyone have a photo of it to share?

Thanks

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Old 11-09-2012, 01:40 PM
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I don't have any answer to this, but I'll be very interested to see what others say.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2012, 06:59 PM
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A rainbow is a combination of multiple mutations, not a mutation of its own so every picture you see of one will naturally be a combination of mutations To have a true rainbow the bird must be a blue series clearwing opaline and yellowface or goldenface. Here are some pictures and more information on them: https://didiermervilde.bestofbreeds.net/rainbowaug11.pdf

A double factor spangle is all white or all yellow like this: https://cutelittlebirdiesaviary.weebl...efactorspangle Some do have a blue "suffusion", but it is only in the places where the blue would naturally be present on the body and it is usually very light
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:03 AM
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Thanks Lindsey. Karma! You are like the God of budgie varieties on here. You always have the answer =)

Now I understand why there are some that looks like an all white double factor spangle yet still have some patches of very light blue.

Just another question, which would you consider to be more dominant.

when a sky blue opaline male mixes with a female sky blue dominant pied. I know the sky blue gene is considered a recessive gene when paired with the normal green. I am not sure on the level of dominance for a dominant pied. This is one of my pairing. Would I expect that the babies would be 100% sky blue dominant pied or a 5050 of each?
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:36 AM
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There are many that know much more than me! I am happy to help when I can though and thank to very much for the karma!

The pairing you mentioned would give you all sky blue chicks, and half of them would be single factor dominant pied assuming your hen is only a single factor. All of the female chicks will be opaline and the males split for it since your male is opaline also

Dark factors, dominant and recessive genes etc are usually inhareted independently of each other. There is really no limit to the amount of dominant, recessive or sex linked genes a budgie can have at once (with a few exceptions in sex linked like lacewing/TCB and recessive like dilute and greywing/clearwing etc), it is just a matter of what the parents have to pass on and if they have the same genes or not


Quote:
Originally Posted by fergus View Post
Thanks Lindsey. Karma! You are like the God of budgie varieties on here. You always have the answer =)

Now I understand why there are some that looks like an all white double factor spangle yet still have some patches of very light blue.

Just another question, which would you consider to be more dominant.

when a sky blue opaline male mixes with a female sky blue dominant pied. I know the sky blue gene is considered a recessive gene when paired with the normal green. I am not sure on the level of dominance for a dominant pied. This is one of my pairing. Would I expect that the babies would be 100% sky blue dominant pied or a 5050 of each?
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:11 AM
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I have a double factor dominant pied hen. Would that mean that I get 100% single factor dominant pied sky blue from this pairing?? Another issue, I have with that pairing is I think my male might be a yellowface type 1 double factor skyblue opaline instead.

The reason why I have this concern is that when I bought him from the pet shop, he came together with a male yellowface type 2 sky blue opaline. I have a feeling that they are brothers. Yet I could not find a reasonable explanation as to how they could be brothers since one is white face and the other being a yellow face.

This only made some sense to me when I have read your website that a yellowface type 1 double factor mutation will result in a white face.

Is there a big difference? Would that change the scale at all?

Just another question. I have another pair. I have a double factor violet sky blue cinnamon wing male paired with a yellow face type 2 sky blue opaline hen.

Since both cinnamon and opaline are sex linked recessive. It would be 50% cinnamon 50% opaline at least for the females while the males will be split for either mutations?

How does the yellow face fare against the white face? 50% single factor yellow face and 50% white face?

I feel really confused about the progeny for this pairing as well.

Do you have a book on budgie genetics to recommend? I am really keen to learn more. However, I can't find sufficient information in the net to make a safe assumption on how to calculate the progeny.

Just FYI: I have been using your Budgie mutation guide as a bible to learn the different budgie mutations ever since I saw it in one of your post. It was really helpful!

Last edited by fergus; 11-10-2012 at 10:26 AM.
  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:11 PM
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I will go over your questions one at a time so it will be easier

Quote:
I have a double factor dominant pied hen. Would that mean that I get 100% single factor dominant pied sky blue from this pairing??
Yes you are correct! When you have a Df parent of any dominant mutation all of the chicks will be Sf regardless of what the other parent is


Quote:
I think my male might be a yellowface type 1 double factor skyblue opaline instead. The reason why I have this concern is that when I bought him from the pet shop, he came together with a male yellowface type 2 sky blue opaline. I have a feeling that they are brothers. Yet I could not find a reasonable explanation as to how they could be brothers since one is white face and the other being a yellow face.
If one of their parents was a sf yellowface II it would be very likely that they are brothers, since half of the chicks would be sf yellowface II and half would be normals.

Yellowface I and Yellowface II are separate mutations, so unless the parents were both sf or df yellowface I (to have a Df yellowface I chick) and one of them at least was sf yellowface II (to have a sf yellowface II chick) the chicks from one clutch could not each be a different yellowface mutation.. does that make sense? It is much more likely that if they are brothers one of their parents was a sf yellowface II A easy way to tell is from the chick outcome, if your male is a DF yellowface I every chick he has will be sf yellowface I.


Quote:
I have a double factor violet sky blue cinnamon wing male paired with a yellow face type 2 sky blue opaline hen.

Since both cinnamon and opaline are sex linked recessive. It would be 50% cinnamon 50% opaline at least for the females while the males will be split for either mutations?

How does the yellow face fare against the white face? 50% single factor yellow face and 50% white face?
From this pairing you will expect all sf violet sky blues. The females will be cinnamon and the males normal, and half of the chicks will be sf yellowface II. All of the males will be split for cinnamon and opaline

Since opaline and cinnamon are sex linked as you mentioned, the cinnamon from male will effect the female chicks visually, where as the opaline from the hen will only make male splits unless the male is split for it as well.


Quote:
How does the yellow face fare against the white face? 50% single factor yellow face and 50% white face?
Yellowface is a dominant gene, so if the hen is sf half of the chicks will be sf too. If she were df all of the chicks would be sf

Just so you don't get confused, "white face" is a term that is usually used to identify a df yellowface I that has a white face but is in fact a yellowface. All normal blue budgies have white faces, so to make it less confusing most just call them normals


Quote:
Do you have a book on budgie genetics to recommend? I am really keen to learn more. However, I can't find sufficient information in the net to make a safe assumption on how to calculate the progeny.

Just FYI: I have been using your Budgie mutation guide as a bible to learn the different budgie mutations ever since I saw it in one of your post. It was really helpful!
I have yet to find a good book on it myself unfortunately to recommend I have always just research online from trusted and well respected sources (this is very important since a lot of what is written out there is by well intentioned people that really have no clue what they are talking about, and you will end up more confused than before ) such as from members of the World Budgerigar Orginazation, the American Budgerigar Society, the Budgerigar Association Of America etc. For example here are 2 very experienced and respected breeders that have some wonderful information on different mutations and how they work:

Diedier Mervildes website: https://didiermervilde.bestofbreeds.net/articles.html

Mike Rankin has some articles here:
https://www.budgerigarassociation.org/articles.htm

Ghalib Al-Nassers website:
https://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=98331


Thank you for the complements on my site! I am so glad it was helpful to you! There is still so much I want to add, but little by little I am getting it done

Last edited by CuteLittleBirdies; 11-10-2012 at 12:20 PM.
  #8  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:28 PM
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Lindsey!
I do not know what to say, as your website is very good. I can see that a lot of hard dedicated time has gone into it. (Hope my English is correct, sometimes I do not think in English)
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:02 PM
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I really appreciate the time you took to explain this in detail to me.

The forum is really a helpful place to learn from other members such as yourself.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Blaker View Post
I think they might be single factor dominant pieds....

check oput this web pge though, ive learned a lot from it

https://cutelittlebirdiesaviary.weebl...ordominantpied

^this web bage belongs to cutelilbirdies
Clearly, your website has helped other members as well. Just a suggestion, may you consider a sticky thread to your website on the Mutation and Genetics section of the forum. I sincerely believe many members and non-members will benefit greatly from your post.

Just curious, are you referring to the undermentioned link for the Ghalib Al-Nassers website?
https://www.al-nasser.co.uk/

I will be going through the links now

Last edited by fergus; 11-10-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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