[myersljennifer]

Hi.

Backstory:
I have had two parakeets for about 4.5 years now. I had to euthanize my girl yesterday. My boy loved her very much as did I but he is my main concern. She had a large cholesterol tumor and possible hernia; was very puffy and sick. The vet didn't recommend surgery. She also said their seed, small fruit, veg diet was the cause of tumor, as they should be on pellets. I am switching him onto pellets now, of course. I feel like the worst.

I'm worried sick about my budgie having the same fate. The vet said he was likely affected but if he didn't have a tumor (he hasn't been checked), I could probably save him by altering diet. He looks tight, smooth, active and happy (he did just lose his love as well), but I do wonder if he has a small tumor that I cannot see. I am taking him to the vet ASAP to confirm.

Questions:
Is it likely that he has a small tumor, and why wouldn't his be as large as hers? They are the same age. If so, how can I help him? Can he live with a very small benign tumor, without pain?

 

[aluz]

Welcome to the forums.

You have my deepest sympathies over your budgie girl's passing.
Regarding the tumour, while an inappropriate diet can make budgies more prone to have fatty deposits and developing tumours, the genetics in terms of the individual bird's heritage also plays an important role. Some budgies who are not considered overweight and are on a decent diet can still potentially develop tumours and this can be directly linked to their genetic heritage (weak bloodlines going through many generations).

A varied diet consisting on a good seed mix for budgies, veggies/sprouted seeds/soft foods, like egg food (moulting supplement) and the occasional little piece of fruit do make a balanced, healthy diet. The more variety, the better and pellets can also be introduced on their diet, but in my opinion just giving pellets is not the way to go and may cause more harm than good.

Just because your female budgie had a tumour, it doesn't mean your other budgie has one too. And from your description, it seems your budgie boy is perfectly fine health wise.

 

[Riovedo]

I saw your thread and it peaked my curiosity and did some research....what Aluz said repeats most of what I read!

 

[myersljennifer]

Thank you so much! I'm so grateful for your words of wisdom and sentiments.

I will introduce pellets into his diet. I was under the impression that he needs to remove seeds. That is very interesting about the genetic predisposition. They ate the same food, had the same lifestyle. Frankly, Kiwi (boy) ate more food than her, and was more active (she was timid). He's also more adventurous food-wise. I don't see a tumor, but shouldn't I take him in for a checkup anyhow?

You don't know how much you've helped me. Seriously. My budgies are my life and I want to do everything possible to make them happy and healthy. I can't believe I made such a grave understep. Kiwi and I gave a great relationship, I am hoping we will be okay, without getting another playmate.

I saw your thread and it peaked my curiosity and did some research....what Aluz said repeats most of what I read!

Thank you!

Welcome to the forums.

I'm sorry. I did not manage to quote your message. Please see my reply above. Thank you!

 

[Cody]

So sorry to hear about your sweet girl. I agree with what Aluz has said. I think a varied diet is the way to go. If you are going to try to convert your other bird to pellets this can be a long process. Do not take away his usual food and just give pellets, if you do this you could cause your bird to starve to death as he may not recognize pellets as food and therefore will not readily eat them. There are many different brands of pellets and just because he won't eat one brand does not mean he will not eat another, it will be a matter of trial and error.
Birds can have tumors that cannot be seen with the naked eye. I have a bird with a testicular tumor. This was discovered 18 months ago. He gets medication daily and so far he is doing well. He eats seeds, pellets and a variety of veggies. Unfortunately budgies seem to be more prone to tumors than some other birds.
I would not assume that your boy has a tumor and I am a bit surprised that the vet would lead you to believe that he does. Did you see an avian vet?

 

[myersljennifer]

So sorry to hear about your sweet girl. I agree with what Aluz has said. I think a varied diet is the way to go. If you are going to try to convert your other bird to pellets this can be a long process. Do not take away his usual food and just give pellets, if you do this you could cause your bird to starve to death as he may not recognize pellets as food and therefore will not readily eat them. There are many different brands of pellets and just because he won't eat one brand does not mean he will not eat another, it will be a matter of trial and error.
Birds can have tumors that cannot be seen with the naked eye. I have a bird with a testicular tumor. This was discovered 18 months ago. He gets medication daily and so far he is doing well. He eats seeds, pellets and a variety of veggies. Unfortunately budgies seem to be more prone to tumors than some other birds.
I would not assume that your boy has a tumor and I am a bit surprised that the vet would lead you to believe that he does. Did you see an avian vet?

I saw an emergency vet which handles birds amongst other animals (so, no). I didn't want my Skye (deceased female) to suffer waiting for my regular vet to be around. Thank you for your sentiments too.

I would never take his food away and force him to eat pellets. I had considered doing half and half, or powdering the pellets, I'm sure there's many things I can come up with. Thank you so much. How long is the long process, typically? Good tip on the pellet brands!

I did hear about the tumors not being visible, which concerns me. Will the vet be able to tell without x-rays, typically? Even though I cannot see. You seem to be very knowledgeable about budgies; it's too bad that your budgie got a tumor regardless. 18 months with it and doing well seems miraculous! That is so special.

 

[FaeryBee]

I agree with both aluz and Cody.

There is no reason to think your male has a tumor at this point in time. :hug:

Please take the time to read the tips on how to introduce new foods to your budgie which can be easily found in the stickies in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum.

When I introduced pellets to my budgie, my Avian Vet recommended using Harrison's High Potency Mash and sprinkling it on the budgie's seed mix every day. This way, when the budgie hulls the seed it tastes the pellet mash and ingests bits of it as well. This helps the budgie identify the taste as a food source.

Many members seem to find the easiest pellets to use for introducing pellets to their budgies to be the CANARY sized Zupreem fruity pellets. Most budgies like the taste and the "Canary" sized pellets are tiny enough for them to easily eat them. Once they've become accustomed to the Fruity Pellets, introducing the smallest "natural" pellets is then an easy step.

Other than when I was using the Harrison's mash, I've never mixed my birds' pellets and seed together. My birds have three separate dishes each with a different brand/flavor of pellets available to them 24/7. Their seed is rationed to approximately 2 teaspoons of seed per budgie each day. I give them seed first thing in the morning right after putting clean newspapers on the bottom grate of the cages. I sprinkle their morning ration on the paper so they can forage for the seeds. I then do the same thing in the evenings (after replacing the soiled newspaper with clean) and again allow them to forage for their seed.

All of my birds have the option to eat the available pellets whenever they like throughout the day and they all enjoy them!

Zupreen Fruity Pellets (most budgies seem to accept these quickly)
Use the smallest size - the ones labeled "canary".

Zupreem Natural
and
Zupreem Avian Entrees Harvest Blend
​

Good seed brands are:

Dr. Harvey's
Volkmans
​

To enhance your budgies diet, you can begin introducing vegetables and fruit to them.

It can take several weeks for budgies to decide to try a new food.
Fruit is high in sugar content so vegetables are actually healthier for your budgies with fruits given only occasionally.

Look at the stickies in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum for lots of good tips on how to introduce new foods to your budgies.
Diet and Nutrition - Talk Budgies Forums

The first vegetable my guys tried (and loved) was sweet corn kernels sprinkled with a teeny bit of garlic powder (NOT salt).
Budgies seem to love "spicy" tastes.
My guys adore fresh basil, cilantro and chickweed.
They also like zucchini and red pepper.

Our Budgies Diet - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

Egg Food- Our Aviary Recipe Step By Step - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/256489-sprouting-seeds-your-budgies.html

Using ACV in your budgie's water works as a natural probiotic which promotes good digestive health.

http://talkbudgies.com/holistic-natural-remedies-[articles]/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html

With a healthy diet, you should not need any vitamins or supplements other than Vitamin D3 which is used for birds who get limited direct sunlight.

Here is an article about Full Spectrum Lighting:
http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-articles/9015-full-spectrum-lighting.html

This link gives you an idea for a small full spectrum light:

Clamp Lamp and Incandescent Spot Lights at Drs. Foster and Smith: Portable lighting for pet birds

You may choose to use a supplement like Soluvite D in addition to a full spectrum light:

Lady Gouldian Finch .com - Soluvite D

 

[myersljennifer]

I agree with both aluz and Cody.

There is no reason to think your male has a tumor at this point in time.

Please take the time to read the tips on how to introduce new foods to your budgie which can be easily found in the stickies in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum.

When I introduced pellets to my budgie, my Avian Vet recommended using Harrison's High Potency Mash and sprinkling it on the budgie's seed mix every day. This way, when the budgie hulls the seed it tastes the pellet mash and ingests bits of it as well. This helps the budgie identify the taste as a food source.

Many members seem to find the easiest pellets to use for introducing pellets to their budgies to be the CANARY sized Zupreem fruity pellets. Most budgies like the taste and the "Canary" sized pellets are tiny enough for them to easily eat them. Once they've become accustomed to the Fruity Pellets, introducing the smallest "natural" pellets is then an easy step.

Other than when I was using the Harrison's mash, I've never mixed my birds' pellets and seed together. My birds have three separate dishes each with a different brand/flavor of pellets available to them 24/7. Their seed is rationed to approximately 2 teaspoons of seed per budgie each day. I give them seed first thing in the morning right after putting clean newspapers on the bottom grate of the cages. I sprinkle their morning ration on the paper so they can forage for the seeds. I then do the same thing in the evenings (after replacing the soiled newspaper with clean) and again allow them to forage for their seed.

All of my birds have the option to eat the available pellets whenever they like throughout the day and they all enjoy them!

Zupreen Fruity Pellets (most budgies seem to accept these quickly)
Use the smallest size - the ones labeled "canary".

Zupreem Natural
and
Zupreem Avian Entrees Harvest Blend
​

Good seed brands are:

Dr. Harvey's
Volkmans
​

To enhance your budgies diet, you can begin introducing vegetables and fruit to them.

It can take several weeks for budgies to decide to try a new food.
Fruit is high in sugar content so vegetables are actually healthier for your budgies with fruits given only occasionally.

Look at the stickies in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum for lots of good tips on how to introduce new foods to your budgies.
Diet and Nutrition - Talk Budgies Forums

The first vegetable my guys tried (and loved) was sweet corn kernels sprinkled with a teeny bit of garlic powder (NOT salt).
Budgies seem to love "spicy" tastes.
My guys adore fresh basil, cilantro and chickweed.
They also like zucchini and red pepper.

Our Budgies Diet - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

Egg Food- Our Aviary Recipe Step By Step - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/256489-sprouting-seeds-your-budgies.html

Using ACV in your budgie's water works as a natural probiotic which promotes good digestive health.

http://talkbudgies.com/holistic-natural-remedies-[articles]/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html

With a healthy diet, you should not need any vitamins or supplements other than Vitamin D3 which is used for birds who get limited direct sunlight.

Here is an article about Full Spectrum Lighting:
http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-articles/9015-full-spectrum-lighting.html

This link gives you an idea for a small full spectrum light:

Clamp Lamp and Incandescent Spot Lights at Drs. Foster and Smith: Portable lighting for pet birds

You may choose to use a supplement like Soluvite D in addition to a full spectrum light:

Lady Gouldian Finch .com - Soluvite D

Thank you again, Faery. Funnily enough, I thought of grinding pellets up and sprinkling onto his seed - my vet said she never heard anyone suggest that or try it. Thank you for giving a brand name and all those links! I have a lot of valuable info here. I will try to get to most of it today. <3

 

[Jo Ann]

Can

I am glad to hear a more balanced approach to your Budgie's Diet from above members of TB. Do not panic and let fear run your life. Yes you can catch tumors early and many are not malignant and size does not tell the tale. I found a very small nodule on the crest of our Jack Frost's wing and this resulted in wing amputation, but he continued to live with his hen and his own little flock. Many times milk thistle is very effective with tumor/ toxin reduction. This has been the case in several of my budgies. This vet sounds just a littler too eager to clean out your pocket book. Balance and knowledge are 2 key points. Skill is another. Learn to handle your budgie comfortably so you both trust each other. We do mini vet checks 3 or 4 times a year with all of our birds. We used to have a large flock but now it is a bit smaller and easier to handle. You should be able to run your fingers along bones in the wings looking for any abnormal lumps, Run your fingers all over the birds body. I like to close my eyes and focus on each bird. Listen to breathing and heart beat with the bird held next to your ear, examine and apply oil to feet legs and area around beak to repel dry skin and watch for mites. Shiny smooth feathers are a sign of good health. You can check your bird over in 5 minutes or less and your bird should be calm and patient. If you do this comfortably your vet team will be able to do a better job when budgie goes to the vet. Our birds do not fear car rides or transport cages etc . Take the time during a normal day to expose your birds to strange/ loud noises as well. They can come to enjoy a ride and sit up in the cage to see what is up for a new adventure, not tremble in fear. We teach and encourage our budgies to be outgoing and curious about their world. Our vet enjoys our birds as they sit upon his hand and rarely attempt to bite out of fear. This will bring you and your budgie closer together. So yes expand the diet and add milk thistle perhaps, Also ACV probiotics, and electrolytes should be in your birdie first aid kit. Purchase a gram scale. It can quickly indicate if your bird is sick. If the bird consistently looses or gains weight and has abnormal droppings longer than3 days, see your vet ASAP. These two things can catch a lot of problems early and keep budgie healthy with minimal intervention. Enjoy your budgie and do not be a prisoner of fear. Give him lots of extra love as he mourns the loss of his hen and in the future consider a new budgie for him to play with either a **** or a hen is fine. Best wishes. Jo Ann

 

[Teddscau]

I personally wouldn't switch the little guy to pellets, since I advocate a natural, whole food diet. I have my guys on a sprout-based diet with a good variety of veggies and the occasional fruit. One of my boys, Ju, has testicular cancer which I've been treating with dandelion root. I grind the dandelion root myself and mix it into their sprouts.

Parrots on a processed diet (pellets) can still develop fatty liver disease and tumours. Processed foods, just like with humans, can still cause problems. An excellent example of this is with the eclectus parrot, which often reacts badly to pellets in their diet. They often develop neurological problems and whatnot, when they are fed pellets.

If you are determined on a pellet diet, I'd recommend Goldenfeast's Goldn'Obles III. The ingredients are organic, human-grade (I think), and doesn't rely on synthetic vitamins and minerals, but instead derives its nutrition from the fruits and veggies in them.