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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i'm really not great with genetics
so i have a dumb question
the cinnamon mutation... what is the base color for that?
it is a dilute black?
if so
would there ever be a possiblity of brown body color in budgies (i told you it was a dumb question)

i can see the blue splitting off from the green, and i can see the yellow as well

with the violet, and a cinnamon, i would imagine that browns and possibly reds of a sort wouldn't be a stretch or would it?

vi
 

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Cinnamon is a sex linked mutation - meaning hens can never be split for it.

Cinnamon is on the bars. Normal budgies have black bars, cinnamons have soft brown bars.


Cinnamon reduces the body color by 50%. This is where 99.9999% of people mistake brown wings for cinnamons. Brown wings look a bit like cinnamon **BUT** brown wing does NOT reduce the body color.

As far as lace-wings being cinnamons. That can be a VERY hot topic in many circles just like an all pelleted diet vs a mixed pelleted seed diet. YES cinnamon can be introduced into lace-wing **BUT** again by doing this one reduces the body color by 50%. The point of lace-wings in the green line of bird (which would be a yellow bird) is to have a DARK yellow with DARK brown markings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thank you so much
i never realized it was a sex linked mutation

i am not too good with genetic but always wondered about the cinnamon

now is there ever a possiblity that a reddish color will ever show up in budgies?

vi
 

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thank you so much
i never realized it was a sex linked mutation

i am not too good with genetic but always wondered about the cinnamon

now is there ever a possiblity that a reddish color will ever show up in budgies?

vi
Not likely. I forget exactly why, nev90 I believe explained it. I forget what exactly it was, I'll try to find the thread for you.
 

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thank you so much
(i did say it was a dumb question)

vi
A dumb question is a question not asked.

I couldn't find the thread either, the search tool wasn't co-operating with me. But at least you now know that it is highly unlikely that you will see a red budgie. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thank you
i am so bad with genetics, even in high school when we had to study mendel's principals

i keep trying to understand them though
and the cinnamon in budgies always intreged me
(please excuse spelling, that was another thing i was terrible in)

i have friends that breed cats and dogs and horses etc and the color genetics always confused me
sheep breeding for spinning fleece ......THAT i understand but the rest
no
i keep trying though
eventually maybe i will get it

thank you again everyone that answered

vi
 

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If you want to learn genetics and mutations, a great website is www.***************

This is how I learned genetics and mutations, I'm not as good as a lot of people on here at them, but I know a fair amount of them, and it was all from this website. :)
 

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The reason why you could not get a red or pink budgies is a scientific reason. If you look at the colour spectrum, it is made of primary, secondary and tertiary colours mainly. There are 3 Primary colours. Red, Yellow and Blue. All other colours are made up from mixtures of these three colours. Budgies in the wild are green. Yellow and Blue make Green, when the Blue colour goes dormant you get a yellow bird and vice versa. As green does not contain the red primary colour it is impossible to get a red or pink budgie. White and black are not colours, white reflects light and black absorbs it.

This is a simplistic reason for no red budgies. Then you have the alteration in wing markings which is another thing altogether and with animals you also get the sex linked colours and recessive colours. Green is always dominant as this is the standard colour of the budgie, so it is always dominant. Albino and Lutino are genetic freaks where pigmentation is lost even in the eye which is why they have red eyes. Lutino comes through the green bird and albino through the blue bird. It actually masks colours. In the lutino the blue colour is masked but it cannot mask the yellow tones so you end up with a yellow bird. With the albino the yellow has already been removed because it has gone dormant and then because the blue is masked you get a pure white bird.
 

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Yes, it's for the reason Kate has said (she said it so much better than I could have) that it seems impossible to get a red or pink budgie. All mutations are from a loss, a loss of all pigment for Albinos, for example. A loss of the production of yellow for blue birds. To get a red budgie it would need to be added (they don't have the colour red anywhere in them), which I don't believe is possible.
 

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Well, I guess it could be possible if people starting messing with DNA and bred those budgies, but I really don't think that would happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thank you all
and yes i did go to that budgie site thank you

the reason i was wondering is that cinnamon is sort of reddish, and violet seems to have a tinge of it
i was wondering if it could sort of happen

i do know the yellow/blue/green connection but i was wondering if there could be a sort of wildcard sport

this was brought up also because i saw a pale budgie with a pink face, (from a mineral block)

vi
 

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So here's my question, some of the more prominently colored violets are an actual purple color. And while I'm not an expert on the color wheel I know that blue+red= purple, so I wonder if there is a possible way to exploit that to get a red color? Just a thought hehe :)
 

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Cinnamon is caused by an interruption in the black pigment. A Cinnamon bird cannot produce black or grey in any colour shade. This only applies to the wing markings and not the body shade.

Violet is not a true violet. It is just a different intensity of blue. Still no red in this type of violet. The violet shade is obtained through the Olive gene and the Violet Cobalt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So here's my question, some of the more prominently colored violets are an actual purple color. And while I'm not an expert on the color wheel I know that blue+red= purple, so I wonder if there is a possible way to exploit that to get a red color? Just a thought hehe :)
YES see that is what i thought

but i guess it's just a visual thing without the red factor

vi
 

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Like Kate C said if you look at violet, it is not actually violet as in purple, as in the red+blue. It is just more of a stronger colbalt colour. Voilet and colbalt actually look a lot alike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
i wonder if with gene splicing etc,
that reds will ever be introduced into budgies
i did read that budgies are their own species ( did i get that right? or is it geneis? which i also can't spell)

ie: that while all different dog breeds can mix
budgies have no others to mix with

(you know, i wish i paid a lot more attention in science now.
cause i don't remember the names either much)

so then by normal breeding that would mean no red would never enter.

and cinnamon is from the black pigment (thanks kateC)

i do see where a violet is visual from cobalt, as it is a very 'reddish' warm blue.
the other thing i find interesting is the colors for the most part while on the cool side of the color wheel, are actually quite warm

anyway thank you all for clearing this up, as i really wasn't sure why if there was cinnamon and violet that red wasn't going to crop up down the road as a sport


vi
 

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Yes Budgies are their own species. For birds to hybridize they need to be of the same genetic family. Members of the Cockatoo Family can hybridize. A few years ago in Australia a Galah (Rose Breasted Cockatoo) hybridized with a Cockatiel and produced a baby. The baby is still alive and well. Lorikeets can hybridize as can an Indian Ringneck Parrot with an Alexandrine. In most cases the offspring are mules but I know for a fact that Lorikeet Hybrids and IRN/Alexandrines are also fertile.

I believe it has been tried to Hybridize a Budgie with a Bourke Parrot but it has not produced fertile eggs. They were hoping to get red or pink into the budgerigar this way. The Bourke Parrot was recently re-classified from Neophema to Neopsephotus. It was found that they were a hybrid between a Neophema and a Psephotus. This probably happened centuries ago. The Cockatiel was sort of re-classified they were not renamed but it was found that they actually were the smallest member of the Cockatoo Family.
 
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