Talk Budgies Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here are two babies from 2 different hens:
1.jpg Pied 2.jpg

Hen baby 1: violet opaline ( Sorry no picture)
Hen baby 2: cobalt/ rec pied
Cobalt hen (2).JPG

I only have 3 cocks in my aviary:
My cocks.jpg
Are the babies clearflight pieds? I believe so, because I've e-mail Toni the one photo.
Which **** is the father? Or can you explain what's going on?
If you need specific photos - ask and I shall try to get it.
 

·
Member of the Month April 2011
Joined
·
5,435 Posts
Let's try to identify the mutations of the parents:

Hen #1 = violet opaline. Does she have a white spot on the back of her head, indicating she's split for recessive pied?
Hen #2 = cobalt normal split for recessive pied. How do you know she's /RP; does she have a white spot on the back of her head?

**** #1 = green normal
**** #2 = cobalt YF1 normal
**** #3 = green opaline?
Do any of the cocks have white spots on the back of their heads, indicating they're split for recessive pied?

The reason I ask is I have a cobalt YF1 heavily marked RP. Her only clear markings are white neck, white scruff of neck (like your Baby #1), clear flights and clear tail. The experts told me she's RP rather than DP; I don't remember why. **** bird is sky blue DFYF1 normal/RP and hen is either opaline spangle DP/RP or opaline spangle combination DP-RP. Thus, RP from **** bird + RP from hen = RP chick. Attached are pictures of "Bib" as a baby and at 14 months of age.

Here's a mutations website: http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#dominantpied. The site explains that a DP chick only needs one DP gene from one parent, and a clearflight chick only needs one clearflight gene from one parent, whereas a RP chick needs one RP gene from each parent.

I'm guessing neither of the babies can be DP or clearflight pied because none of the hens or cocks are DP or clearflight pied; thus, perhaps the chicks are heavily marked recessive pieds. I can't tell the body color or markings on Baby #1; does s/he have a yellow face? Baby #2 looks cobalt YF opaline (are RP and opaline mutually exclusive???). Blue baby must come from two blue parents. Hen #2 is cobalt; **** #2 is cobalt YF1 normal but **** #s 1 and 3 could be the father if split for blue. **** #2 seems a likely candidate but if Baby #2 is opaline, then we need to apply opaline genetics (which I don't understand) to determine parentage (http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#opaline).

I'm intrigued to read what the experts say. (I assume my thinking is wrong in at least one area.)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
if i remember correctly, does the opaline green male not have some white flights? maybe a picture of his wings may help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You would know who the father is if you did not colony breed. Colony breeding is very dangerous.
To figure out who the parents are, is part of the fun. Money and space are also a bit of a problem for seperate cage breeding, but I am busy getting breeding cages so that I can some pairings. (This doesn't sound right? - I'm not English speaking!!!) In fact I have the cobalt yellow face **** and the cobalt/rec pied together in a cage now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Let's try to identify the mutations of the parents:

Hen #1 = violet opaline. Does she have a white spot on the back of her head, indicating she's split for recessive pied?
Hen #2 = cobalt normal split for recessive pied. How do you know she's /RP; does she have a white spot on the back of her head?

**** #1 = green normal
**** #2 = cobalt YF1 normal
**** #3 = green opaline?
Do any of the cocks have white spots on the back of their heads, indicating they're split for recessive pied?

The reason I ask is I have a cobalt YF1 heavily marked RP. Her only clear markings are white neck, white scruff of neck (like your Baby #1), clear flights and clear tail. The experts told me she's RP rather than DP; I don't remember why. **** bird is sky blue DFYF1 normal/RP and hen is either opaline spangle DP/RP or opaline spangle combination DP-RP. Thus, RP from **** bird + RP from hen = RP chick. Attached are pictures of "Bib" as a baby and at 14 months of age.

Here's a mutations website: http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#dominantpied. The site explains that a DP chick only needs one DP gene from one parent, and a clearflight chick only needs one clearflight gene from one parent, whereas a RP chick needs one RP gene from each parent.

I'm guessing neither of the babies can be DP or clearflight pied because none of the hens or cocks are DP or clearflight pied; thus, perhaps the chicks are heavily marked recessive pieds. I can't tell the body color or markings on Baby #1; does s/he have a yellow face? Baby #2 looks cobalt YF opaline (are RP and opaline mutually exclusive???). Blue baby must come from two blue parents. Hen #2 is cobalt; **** #2 is cobalt YF1 normal but **** #s 1 and 3 could be the father if split for blue. **** #2 seems a likely candidate but if Baby #2 is opaline, then we need to apply opaline genetics (which I don't understand) to determine parentage (http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#opaline).

I'm intrigued to read what the experts say. (I assume my thinking is wrong in at least one area.)
There's no white spot at the back of hen 1. The same for hen 2, but she must be /RP, because she gave me already 2 RP's. (pic 1)
**** 3 is a Green Opaline, but none of the cocks has a white spot. Is there always a spot when a bird is /RP?
**** 1 is the one I think is a /RP. He and hen 2 gave me 2 RP's - one cobalt, 1 green - as seen in picture.
Yes, baby 1 is a YF.

I will post some pictures a little bit later.
 

Attachments

·
Member of the Month April 2011
Joined
·
5,435 Posts
**** 1 is the one I think is a /RP. He and hen 2 gave me 2 RP's - one cobalt, 1 green - as seen in picture.
If **** #1 (green normal) and Hen #2 (cobalt normal) produced RP chicks, then yes, both are split for RP. And since they produced a blue chick, the green **** must be split for blue, too, which means he could produce blue chicks with either hen.

That RP chick has interesting pale coloring. However, I don't know whether genetically, he could be cobalt YF2 RP rather than green RP.

Perhaps my lack of knowledge is confusing you more than helping. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Do you say that the RP in picture can be a blue bird? Genetically it is possible, but if it's true, I'm lost - I truly think I am.
Susan how do you, Nev, Toni, ect remember this stuff - don't know if I ever will. Maybe I must stop worrying about their genetic makeup and enjoy the birds. NO!!, that's not me - I want to understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here are some new photos of the young birds. What are they?
Toni, I thought that one of the green cocks (Green Opaline) has white flight feathers, but I was wrong. There's no indication that any of the cocks are dominant pieds. Can you also tell the colour of the birds? The second baby I think is a cobalt(?). Is it possible to sex them also - or is that too early?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
this thread is feeling a little confusing to me! so i will try to take one thing at a time.

if the none of the potential parents have any spots or white flights then it is unlikely that they or the chicks are dom pieds or clearflights. however, as you can get heavily and lightly marked pieds, maybe one of the adults is genetically a dom pied or clearflight but has no white showing... i imagine it would be possible though not common.

if a pair of these birds has produced rec pieds before, as in your picture of a green rec pied above, then it seems more likely that the chicks are very heavily marked rec pieds. it must be very unlikely to get two of these from two different hens at the same time though. however if they are rec pieds they will not develop iris rings, which should clarify things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
ok, so firstly, if none of the parents have any pied markings it is not likely the chicks are clearflight, unless one of the parents is genetically a clearflight but has no markings. which does not seem likely though i imagine it is possible.

as you have had rec pied chicks before it seems more likely that these two are heavily marked rec pieds, though getting two like this at once and from different hens seem odd. if they are rec pieds they will not develop an iris ring so that will confirm either way.

the first chick looks like a mauve yellow face mutant 2, and the second a cobalt yellow face, probably mutant 2 also. i am going with the yf cobalt being the father of the mauve as the two green cocks look like light greens in the photo (though a flash may have them appearing lighter than they are) and light greens can't produce mauves.

and the second chick could be the offspring of any of the males, though i would lean towards the same male being the father just because we know he is yf too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Actually there are 3 of these "pieds". I gave one away so I don't have a picture of it. 2 are from a opaline violet hen and 1 from the cobalt hen. The cobalt hen also gave me rec pieds- the green one and a cobalt.
When will the iris rings start developing? I don't now if I'm seeing things but the mauve pied has a iris ring in one eye???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
the age the iris ring comes in can vary, esp with pieds. compare it to one of your adult birds, and check again in a few weeks. i did wonder if i could see an iris ring onthe mauve in one of the pictures, if they get an iris ring then they are not rec pieds...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've spent some time in the aviary today. The mauve has definitely iris rings. I will see if I can get photo's of that. Isn't there something else I can look for in the cocks? What about a toenail with a little black? Isn't that an indication of a pied?
Oh yes, the greens are light greens and the cobalt YF **** is the mate of the violet hen, but the opaline green is the mate of the cobalt hen, but that doesn't mean much in an open aviary, does it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
in an aviary situation any male could mate with any hen regardless of who theyare paired with.

however the light greens can't be the father of the mauve, so that means the cobalt must be the dad. all of which does not tell us how you got a pied with an iris ring.... they both look like clearflights to me, so i would hazard a guess that as they have different mums the cobalt male is the father of both and is a clearflight with no obvious markings!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Both babies have iris rings. Does that mean that they are not RP's?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
thats right, rec pieds do not normally have iris rings. so it looks like you may have a cobalt clearflight **** without any markings....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you. I'm going to take him out - in fact he's already out - and put him with a hen in a seperate breeding cage. I'll keep you informed if anything happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,190 Posts
It was mentioned a few times that recessive pieds have bald spots, I thought that was a dominant pied trait. Am I wrong?
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top