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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been in doubt of Autumn's mutation since I've had her for around 4-5 months.

She has both black and grey stripes...and even 2 of her throat spots appear quite dark, looks like black, or probably is black.

She has Pink feet, which I was told cannot be present on a normal Greywing. So I wondered if she were a Cinnamon Greywing....as Cinnamons often have Pink Feet. I was told she's some sort of hybrid (ouch) as she doesn;t have the typical Grey tail quill like Greywings do. She has it clear with grey coloured tail feather..

At first I thought she was dirty, so appeared like and odd greywing...but then she moulted and now she looks like this.

However I recently came across Barrie Shutt's Website (click and find Texas Clearbody) because I remembered that Texas Clearbodies do have grey and black stripes...and after comparing the pictures, the colour of the stripes look the same to my inexperienced eyes, + those have Pink Feet too!

But then she has too much colour to be a clearbody. But then she's a hen...so makes it more likely she'd be a TCB or Cinnamon combined with Greywing.

I was also told by a Breeder of TCB that she looks like a TCB to him as well here.

Before moulting.



After moulting/









 

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I do not think she is a cinnamon/ greywing, when those mutations are combined they are usually very diluted and have very light wing and body markings, even more than most dilutes.

I also agree that she does not look like a TCB, her colors are too bright and not in the right places from the ones I have bred and have seen. Her cheek patches and tail feathers are also not right for a TCB in addition to the dilution.

I think she is just a poorly marked greywing from what I can see personally. Just because she has pink feet does not mean she I not a greywing, I have seen a number of greywings with pink feet and have one myself :) Every bird will not meet the expected standard, that is why many breeders are constantly trying to breed to meet the standard of a mutation, many have the wrong markings and there are few things a bird cannot have in coloring.

If you always look for a bird to have every expected color and marking you will end up very confused, as most do not have all of them. It is important to look at the bird as a whole when trying to determine the mutation and not just specific characteristics as they can and will vary :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do not think she is a cinnamon/ greywing, when those mutations are combined they are usually very diluted and have very light wing and body markings, even more than most dilutes.

I also agree that she does not look like a TCB, her colors are too bright and not in the right places from the ones I have bred and have seen. Her cheek patches and tail feathers are also not right for a TCB in addition to the dilution.

I think she is just a poorly marked greywing from what I can see personally. Just because she has pink feet does not mean she I not a greywing, I have seen a number of greywings with pink feet and have one myself :) Every bird will not meet the expected standard, that is why many breeders are constantly trying to breed to meet the standard of a mutation, many have the wrong markings and there are few things a bird cannot have in coloring.

If you always look for a bird to have every expected color and marking you will end up very confused, as most do not have all of them. It is important to look at the bird as a whole when trying to determine the mutation and not just specific characteristics as they can and will vary :)
But don't you think there could be a slight possibility that she's a combination of TCB and something else?

Most people don;t understand mutations in my country, we don't have budgie Exhibitions either, so breeders aren't concerned about show standards...so she could have been bred from anything!

I've seen a couple of TCBs in my country. And her stripe pattern looks very much like those TCBs on Barrie Shutt's website.

I've never seen a greywing like this before...but I originally got her because I wanted a Greywing hen...lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

I also agree that she does not look like a TCB, her colors are too bright and not in the right places from the ones I have bred and have seen.
A breeder of TCB has shared a photos of his budgies with me. He has this TCB. Have a look and compare the colours.

 

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But don't you think there could be a slight possibility that she's a combination of TCB and something else?

Most people don;t understand mutations in my country, we don't have budgie Exhibitions either, so breeders aren't concerned about show standards...so she could have been bred from anything!

I've seen a couple of TCBs in my country. And her stripe pattern looks very much like those TCBs on Barrie Shutt's website.

I've never seen a greywing like this before...but I originally got her because I wanted a Greywing hen...lol
It is not her wings, but everything else about her that does not look like a TCB :) If she was a normal TCB she should not have a diluted grey tail or cheek patches.

The only thing that she looks like she could be combined with in addition to TCB would be greywing to me. Even then her markings are not right if you want to go that far. She has body color all the way up her neck and chest and it is the same as her rump (which should be the brightest on a TCB) where it should be washed out, especially if she were a combination of the 2 mutations she would be nearly white on the chest and throat, and her wing markings should be diluted like a greywing not black and grey like a normal TCB.

Her markings are definatly strange, but she looks like a normal greywing in dilution, tail and cheek patches in every way except for the darker markings on some wing and head feathers which I have seen on a number of greywings before. Lets wait and see what Nev says :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·


It is not her wings, but everything else about her that does not look like a TCB :) If she was a normal TCB she should not have a diluted grey tail or cheek patches.

The only thing that she looks like she could be combined with in addition to TCB would be greywing to me. Even then her markings are not right if you want to go that far. She has body color all the way up her neck and chest and it is the same as her rump (which should be the brightest on a TCB) where it should be washed out, especially if she were a combination of the 2 mutations she would be nearly white on the chest and throat, and her wing markings should be diluted like a greywing not black and grey like a normal TCB.

Her markings are definatly strange, but she looks like a normal greywing in dilution, tail and cheek patches in every way except for the darker markings on some wing and head feathers which I have seen on a number of greywings before. Lets wait and see what Nev says :)
Did you notice the markings on that English budgie? They look exactly like her's!
That English budgie belongs to a breeder who breeds TCBs. So maybe there are varieties of TCB that have a lot of suffusion!

Waiting for Nev's views too. It's so interesting.
 

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A breeder of TCB has shared a photos of his budgies with me. He has this TCB. Have a look and compare the colours.

Ask him for a larger pic that shows the whole bird including its tail, a normal TCB should not have a grey tail but rather a normal colored one? :)


 

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You know I wonder if she is just a really dark cinnamon? I had thought her cheek patches were so bright from a violet factor, but maybe she is a cinnamon and that would make sense with the pink feet and legs too :) Here is a thread barrie commented on, and Erins bird looks a lot like yours in the wing markings and hers got much darker after a molt too :) http://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=60101
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
You know I wonder if she is just a really dark cinnamon? I had thought her cheek patches were so bright from a violet factor, but maybe she is a cinnamon and that would make sense with the pink feet and legs too :) Here is a thread barrie commented on, and Erins bird looks a lot like yours in the wing markings and hers got much darker after a molt too :) http://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=60101
Yup I've seen that bird on Facebook recently and I thought it looked a lot like Autumn...but then the colours are different, and last night I ended up on Barrie's site and noticed the pink feet, and the similar pattern of the wings.

Let's see...in fact I've discussed this with Erin on Facebook too where 3 breeders have also suggested that she looks like a TCB.

I wonder what Nev has to say....but I think she's a TCB with some other kind of combination.

Have a look at our discussion in the comments here
 

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You know I wonder if she is just a really dark cinnamon? I had thought her cheek patches were so bright from a violet factor, but maybe she is a cinnamon and that would make sense with the pink feet and legs too :) Here is a thread barrie commented on, and Erins bird looks a lot like yours in the wing markings and hers got much darker after a molt too :) http://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=60101
My initial thought was cinnamon too. I've never seen TCBs with body color like that.
 

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My initial thought was cinnamon too. I've never seen TCBs with body color like that.
Me either Erin, I had hoped you would chime in on this and say what you thought :) Also the change in color before and after molt is very strange for a TBC too, mine and other chicks I have seen have always had strong obvious TCB markings from the time they feathered up as chicks on into ther adult plumage, the markings did not change :)
 

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Yup I've seen that bird on Facebook recently and I thought it looked a lot like Autumn...but then the colours are different, and last night I ended up on Barrie's site and noticed the pink feet, and the similar pattern of the wings.

Let's see...in fact I've discussed this with Erin on Facebook too where 3 breeders have also suggested that she looks like a TCB.

I wonder what Nev has to say....but I think she's a TCB with some other kind of combination.

Have a look at our discussion in the comments here
The color would naturally be different since Erin's was a grey and yours is not :) if you look at Barrie's examples all of them have the normal TCB markings and tail as well, it is more than just the wing markings that make a TCB :)

If nothing else you will know when you breed her, ideally you would find a Ino male since TCB is dominant to Ino. With this pairing you would expect all male TCBs and Ino females if she were a TCB, and if not normal males and Ino females :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
There's definitely a brown hue to her flights...but again I've never seen a TCB in person, but from the pictures, some of those have that brown hue too...including that Show Budgie's.

Planning to breed her with my Dominant Pied Skyviolet...maybe their male Dom Pied chick might be able to produce a TCB Dom Pied Hen one day...if she's a TCB.
 

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Hmm I don't see the TCB either to be honest, like Lindseys my TCB was obvious as a chick.

I too have had greywings with markings like that as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
OK I found something. Got any idea about this "MISTY" mutation?
Click here.

Although I think that Dom Pied is Cinnamon.

My initial thought was cinnamon too. I've never seen TCBs with body color like that.


The color would naturally be different since Erin's was a grey and yours is not :) if you look at Barrie's examples all of them have the normal TCB markings and tail as well, it is more than just the wing markings that make a TCB :)

If nothing else you will know when you breed her, ideally you would find a Ino male since TCB is dominant to Ino. With this pairing you would expect all male TCBs and Ino females if she were a TCB, and if not normal males and Ino females :)
Hmm I don't see the TCB either to be honest, like Lindseys my TCB was obvious as a chick.

I too have had greywings with markings like that as well.
 

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OK I found something. Got any idea about this "MISTY" mutation?
Click here.

Although I think that Dom Pied is Cinnamon.
I have known about the misty for some time, although the information about it is very slim :) I dont think your girl is one personally from the discriptions. To really show the mutation she would have to be a double factor, and the odds of a pet store budgie having 2 misty parents would be very slim at best :)

The grey Dominant pied does look diluted a bit in it colors, but opalines have about 10% dilution and when you add in the misty it would be even more so, I don't think it is a cinnamon :)
 
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