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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have two birds - which are confusing me a little...

I was under the impression that they were both Double Factor Spangles...

One is all Yellow with black eyes - but after his last moult, I noticed a small patch of green in his leg, and on his breast... (When I say small - I'm talking 3-5 mm)

The other is a all White with black eyes - and the same thing has happened to him, he has a tiny (2-3mm) patch of blue just above his leg... (It's really hard to see on the picture of his abdo - but the patch is just above his left leg)

So my question is - am I wrong on their mutation? Or is this a common occurance in DFS?

Thanks for your help...

Anj
 

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I can't really tell from the pictures, but I think it is probably double factor spangle.

D If it is a double factor spangle, their irises in the eyes will lighten with age. If they stay a plum colour throughout its life, then the mutation is dark eyed clear. If their eyes are red, then they are lutino and albino.

I can't really see the eyes in the picture, so that is something you will have to judge. Just remember about the eyes, light is double factor spangle, dark plum is dark eyed clear and red is lutino (yellow) and albino (white).:)
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey...

Their eyes are black with iris rings - I was under assumption that was what made them DFS, rather than DEC...

Thanks
 

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They are definitely Double Factor Spangles. It is not uncommon for them to have a flushing of colour around their abdomen. Blue for a white bird and green for a yellow bird. This information is from a Budgie Judge as we had a query about it last year with a bird that was entered into our show. It sometimes comes about with certain breeding. In their case from memory (and that's not good) the bird was carrying 3 double factor spangle genes. I think 1 parent was a double factor spangle and the other was a spangle. We had to have the bird looked at prior to the show so that it was put in the right class just in case the judge doing that section disagreed. It was a novice bird and the judges doing that section are often probationary and don't have as much experience.
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wow... What great information...

It's always a nice to have confirmation that your budgie's mutation is in fact what you thought it was...

Another question I have... I have my boys matched up with Ino's... Eg. Yellow DFS **** with a lutino hen and White DFS with a lutino hen..

What kind of chicks can I expect from these mutations?

Thanks
Anj
 

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50% Single Factor Spangle/Ino Cocks
50% Single Factor Spangle Hens

This is what I would expect from those pairings although a White DFS **** would be better with an Albino hen.
 

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Wow... What great information...

It's always a nice to have confirmation that your budgie's mutation is in fact what you thought it was...

Another question I have... I have my boys matched up with Ino's... Eg. Yellow DFS **** with a lutino hen and White DFS with a lutino hen..

What kind of chicks can I expect from these mutations?

Thanks
Anj
Yellow DFS **** x Lutino hen =
100% green SF spangle chicks, males being split for ino
If both **** and hen are split for blue, you have a 25% chance of blue chicks, 50% chance of chicks being split for blue, and 25% chance of chicks having no 'blue gene'.

White DFS **** x albino hen
100% blue SF spangle chicks, males being split for ino.

In their case from memory (and that's not good) the bird was carrying 3 double factor spangle genes. I think 1 parent was a double factor spangle and the other was a spangle.
Umm, im not sure what you mean by 3 double factor spangle genes? That would mean 6 spangle genes, and a bird only carry one (SF spangle) or 2 (DF spangle).
DF x DF will produce all DF spangle chicks.
SF x DF will produce 50% SF, 50% DF.
SF x SF will produce 25% normals, 50% SF, 25% DF.
SF x normal will produce 50% normal, 50% SF.

In regards to coloured feathers coming through, what Anj described is extremely minimal suffusion. Early DF spangles had a chest 'bib', in other words their chest was suffused with colour. This was for some stupid reason considered a show fault, and birds with no suffusion were declared the ideal. So now we usually have DF spangles that are in colour identical to ino's and DEC's, which i think is stupid because having a bib would make them stand out. And i have to say i find the bib a beautiful thing. I'll have to go find a picture of it to show you.

Edit: Here is a picture of a show DF spangle that has won top awards even with the suffused bib (hooray!). This picture and bird belong to splat, who's post can be found HERE
 

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Thanks Dean. I am not really up on DFS as I mainly breed normals, Dominant Pied, Opalines and Cinnamons. I have a few spangles but I only use them to breed SF Spangles and not DF. Personally I prefer SF to DF as I think the wing markings are lovely. But my big soft spot is for Cinnamons, followed by Dom. Pieds.
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dean...

Thanks for all the information - I agree with you, the DFS above iHe is very handsome indeed...

I made a little typo above... I have paired my White DSF with an albino - not a lutino like I typed...

So... I wouldn't necessarily have thought that my beautiful yellow DFS **** and my lutino hen would produce green birds... Guess I would need to find an Ino **** to pair her with, so that I get more Ino's...

Thanks for all the info...

You are a very knowledgable budgie expert Dean - thanks for putting up with my novice questions!!

And Kate - thanks for all your imput too...
 

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Yep, if you want more lutinos, pair your hen to another lutino. Same with albinos.

If you like spangle markings, but you also like DF spangles, then pair your DF spangles to SF spangles. You should end up with roughly 50% of both :)
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So Dean...

Got any Male Lutino or Albino Cocks you want to sell me? I really struggle to find them!! lol
 

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So Dean...

Got any Male Lutino or Albino Cocks you want to sell me? I really struggle to find them!! lol
I have a **** split albino, he and his hen have produced 11 chicks for me this breeding season and i wont be breeding again until around september. I have so far kept two males, and two YF2 albino females from those 11 as well as 4 other chicks i havent really gotten around to sexing yet. I purchased a pet type albino ****, but he's young yet and should be old enough by september to put to one of the YF2 albino hens to create my first clutch/es of albinos!

I know of quite a few local breeders who have lutinos, but albinos dont seem to be very popular here either. It'd be worth speaking to jim ziarno of hamilton, he should have a few lutino's going around now. Probably chicks, but he might still be able to help you out :)
 

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The Kangaroo Whisperer
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They are actually quite common in Australia. Me and my friend used to think white budgies were really rare :p but I normally see at least 1-3 every time we go to a petshop or breeder.

Also I know we are of the subject of Double Factor Spangles but i do in fact have one:)
He is not 'white' but more cream with the blue/grey suffision
 

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The Kangaroo Whisperer
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Here He is,Phantom:

and because we are on Inos also :p His dad is spilt to ino
Sorry the picture was from when he was a chick. He is now grown up but he hates pictures :eek:
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Handsome....

Does he have the Iris Rings now?

I think the DFS are stunning - but I love the Ino's too...

We had the most beautiful tame albino hen - then her hormones kicked in, and she turned pretty feral, so I'm trying to find her a boyfriend to keep her mind off my finger tips!! lol
 

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The Kangaroo Whisperer
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Yes he is actually completley turned blue cere now. He would be about 6 months now I think...
I am not sure if he has iris rings
*Runs to check*
 

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spɹıq ɹoɟ slɐǝɥ
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
*Eagerly waits in anticipation!! * lol
 

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The Kangaroo Whisperer
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*rushes back breathless and cold*
Lol it is quite cold here and the budgies are in the avairy outside...And I struggled to find a torch:p Lol its 7pm here

Anyway...No he does not have an iris rings.:)
 
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