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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
White-faced normal sky blue **** paired with dilute hen produced four chicks. Chicks 1 and 2 are are yellow-faced cobalt blue normals; Chick 3 is recessive pied; and Chick 4 is normal (probably cobalt blue, but too young to determine face color). I can understand that three chicks are normals and 2-3 are yellow faced because those are dominant factors. But how did this **** (split normal/? genes?) and hen (two recessive dilute genes?) produce a recessive pied chick (two recessive pied genes?)??? Thanks in advance.
 

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Provided that you are not colony breeding and can be sure of the parentage of the chicks: This is possible if both birds are split for recessive pied and one of them is a double factor type 1 yellow face (which would appear as a white faced bird). However the recessive pied looks like a type 2 yellow face which is why I question the parentage because to get type 2 yellow face it should show on one of the parents
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thank you for responding!

Here's a better picture of Chick #3, which I'm 99% certain came from the normal blue **** and dilute hen pictured in my original post. Notice s/he has a spot of color on his/her back (and his/her belly, as well) similar to the blue body color on the three normal chicks.

I do have one other pair, however, which attempted to breed during the same time as the subject pair; they are an opaline (?) green **** and dominant pied hen, and are pictured below. The second pair's first clutch of 5 eggs were infertile. I observed them trying to mate, but since the green **** is obese (he was obese when I adopted him; I'm trying to trim him down), he fell off the DP hen and eventually he gave up trying to mate with her. (However, she's currently roosting a second clutch of 5 eggs, presumably all infertile.)

In short, although it's possible the green **** mated with the dilute hen, it's unlikely because (1) the dilute is bonded with the blue, (2) the blue color on Chick #3 is similar to blue colors on his/her clutchmates, (3) the green is too fat to mate, and (4) the green might be sterile due to obesity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Exactly. I think that is very little doubt that the green **** is the father of at least one of the chicks if not all of them
I really do think the sky blue normal **** is the dad. I observed him mating regularly with the dilute hen before and during egg laying, and the light green normal/opaline was too obese to mate with the hen he bonded with. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
FWIW, I think I figured out the chicks' genetics:

Dad is normal/recessive pied; since normal is dominant, he looks normal.
Mom is dilute/dilute, so of course, she looks dilute.
Chick #1 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.
Chick #2 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.
Chick #3 is recessive pied/dilute; since recessive pied is dominant to dilute, s/he looks recessive pied.
Chick #4 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.

What's interesting is the chicks are cobalt blue, whereas dad is sky blue. Perhaps mom's body is dilute cobalt blue.
 

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Don't know much about genetics but that little mystery baby is gorgeous!:D As of course are all of them.
 

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FWIW, I think I figured out the chicks' genetics:

Dad is normal/recessive pied; since normal is dominant, he looks normal.
Mom is dilute/dilute, so of course, she looks dilute.
Chick #1 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.
Chick #2 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.
Chick #3 is recessive pied/dilute; since recessive pied is dominant to dilute, s/he looks recessive pied.
Chick #4 is normal/dilute; since normal is dominant, s/he looks normal.

What's interesting is the chicks are cobalt blue, whereas dad is sky blue. Perhaps mom's body is dilute cobalt blue.
For a chick to be either of recessive pied or dilute mutations both parents have to carry the gene. If only one parent has the gene you can only produce splits and only half of the chicks will be split but you can't usually tell which they are visually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Very interesting, Neville. :) So what do you suppose my brood's genetics are (dad, mom and chick #3)? Dad is visually normal; Mom is visually dilute; and Chick #3 is visually recessive pied.

By the way, Chicks 1, 2 and 4 (the cobalt blue normals) have yellow faces and tails; and Chick 3 (the cobalt blue recessive pied) has a yellowish tint all over face and body, except flight feathers. I read on another site (http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#yellowface) that I won't know whether the chicks are yellowface Type I or Type II until their first molt.
 

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Very interesting, Neville. :) So what do you suppose my brood's genetics are (dad, mom and chick #3)? Dad is visually normal; Mom is visually dilute; and Chick #3 is visually recessive pied.

By the way, Chicks 1, 2 and 4 (the cobalt blue normals) have yellow faces and tails; and Chick 3 (the cobalt blue recessive pied) has a yellowish tint all over face and body, except flight feathers. I read on another site (http://www.***************/colorsguide.html#yellowface) that I won't know whether the chicks are yellowface Type I or Type II until their first molt.
That's right. Sometimes you have to wait until after the first moult to tell if you have type 1 or type 2 yellow face. It would be a genetic imposibility for this pair to produce a type 2 yellow face so if there are type 2's (like chick 3) the green **** must be more active than you thought. (Perhaps he had a good day!). Budgies can be split for several mutations at the same time. If the cobalts are type 1 yellow face then one of the parents is a double factor type 1. (Double factor type 1's have white faces). All the chicks will be split for dilute from the mum. The mum and the father of the recessive pied must be split for recessive pied. As there were no dilutes the father is probably not split for dilute
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Wow, thanks so much for all the great info! Budgie genetics is fascinating!

If Chick 3 is split for recessive pied/dilute (recessive pied from dad, dilute from mom -- see Post #7 above), wouldn't s/he look recessive pied? (This site says dilute "loses" to any other factor: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/bluffs/1958/notech4.html.)

In addition, a couple websites (http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article5.htm and http://www.geocities.com/heartland/bluffs/1958/notech4.html) say a normal with a white (clear) spot on the back of his/her head means s/he is split for recessive pied. Do you agree?

Regarding the yellow face type, I guess I'll just have to wait a couple more months for the first molt. :)
 

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If Chick 3 is split for recessive pied/dilute (recessive pied from dad, dilute from mom -- see Post #7 above), wouldn't s/he look recessive pied? (This site says dilute "loses" to any other factor: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/bluffs/1958/notech4.html.)
Chick 3 does look recessive pied, the dilute is carried as split so you can't see it
In addition, a couple websites (http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article5.htm and http://www.geocities.com/heartland/bluffs/1958/notech4.html) say a normal with a white (clear) spot on the back of his/her head means s/he is split for recessive pied. Do you agree?
Thats right. At least half of the other chicks will be spilt for recessive pied but not all birds that are split for recessive pied have a clear spot on their heads
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Neville, thank you again for sharing your expertise! Since the mom is dilute, I assume all 4 babies (including the normal with the white spot on the back of his head) are split for dilute, which is recessive to both normal and recessive pied.

Attached are a couple current photos of the 4 babies. The normal with the baby bars and the recessive pied are girls; the other two normals are boys. They range from 7-8 weeks old.

By the way, the dilute hen is currently roosting her second clutch with the same sky blue normal ****. I candled the eggs today, and at least 4 are fertile. (Yikes :eek:!) On the 4-day-old egg, I saw the heart beating; it's the size of a pencil point! :D
 

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