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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm not a breeder, and I don't exhibit show budgies. I am just someone who has a love for budgies and a strong interest in varieties and mutations.

It seems that any time I learn and understand something, later on I am told it is wrong. For example, I learned two years ago that my Toby was a dark green clearflight dominant pied, a dominant pied because of the clear head patch (Even Gerald Binks book says this.) It took time for me to soak this up because I wanted to understand for myself. Here's Toby. You can't see the clear head patch in this picture but it is there. (He has clear blotches on his left side.)



Then later I was told that he isn't a dominant pied at all, he is a clearflight pied. Well that didn't fly with me at the time because he is my bird and I learned and understood from what others (who have decades of experience in breeding to include a geneticist and a show bench judge) had taught me awhile back.

One time last year I showed the President of the Houston Budgerigar Society a photo of Toby and he said from that photo he thought Toby might be split for blue because of the blue suffusion. Now I am being told that you can't visually see if a bird is split for blue. Hidden genes are hidden.

Then today I am being told that the clear head patch means that a bird is split for recessive pied??

Am I to take a person's word? And if so, why are there such differing opinions? Do I need to be a breeder to truly understand? If not, then where/how can I learn?

Thanks for listening. :)
 

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Eternal Love
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He is a
Clearflight Darkgreen pied ( im not sure of the shade of green tho :p) split for recessive pied

and i think he is also split for blue but i could be wrong on that
 

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I don't think you can tell for sure what mutations are hidden in birds that have split genes until you breed them. However, there are indicators....like the clear patch and suffusion.... that suggest what they may be hiding.
 

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To me your bird looks to be a clearflight pied.
The only way to know for sure about a bird's true mutations is to breed them.

I was told by an expert breeder once when I was getting so many mixed opinions about one of my birds that all the expert breeders out there can tell you one thing and others will tell you something different but you are the one that knows your bird the best and just look at him and you will know. If you know what he is and you are sure of it don't let others tell you its wrong and confuse you! That worked for me anyway.. but I'm still not sure what my bird's mutation is exactly :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
To me your bird looks to be a clearflight pied. The only way to know for sure about a bird's true mutations is to breed them.
A clearflight pied has a solid body color with clear flight feathers. Yes Toby has clear flights, but Toby has some clear patches on the left side of his belly and a small one on his right. Dominant pieds have clear patches in the body color, many with a clear band around its belly. Much of what I am talking about is coming from Gerald Binks' book "The Challenge". Gerald Binks is a famous British breeder with 60 years of experience.

Is he right? I don't know. :)


I was told by an expert breeder once when I was getting so many mixed opinions about one of my birds that all the expert breeders out there can tell you one thing and others will tell you something different but you are the one that knows your bird the best and just look at him and you will know. If you know what he is and you are sure of it don't let others tell you its wrong and confuse you! That worked for me anyway.. but I'm still not sure what my bird's mutation is exactly :eek:
Thank you! But why does it have to be so subjective? Shouldn't there be a definitive resource that all can agree on? And if I am not a breeder, then my understanding of varieties is automatically inaccurate? :S
 

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A clearflight pied has a solid body color with clear flight feathers. Yes Toby has clear flights, but Toby has some clear patches on the left side of his belly and a small one on his right. Dominant pieds have clear patches in the body color, many with a clear band around its belly. Much of what I am talking about is coming from Gerald Binks' book "The Challenge". Gerald Binks is a famous British breeder with 60 years of experience.

Is he right? I don't know. :)


Well don't take my word for it. I'm not an expert! He could be both dominant pied and clearflight pied. But honestly I don't know :eek:


Thank you! But why does it have to be so subjective? Shouldn't there be a definitive resource that all can agree on? And if I am not a breeder, then my understanding of varieties is automatically inaccurate? :S
I know! that's what I thought too.. frustrating isn't it?

Which of your birds are you not sure of? You have so many! :cool:
I have two birds actually that I'm not sure what they are. Sonny and Nixie are their names.

Nixie is a goldenface cobalt opaline but she could be a YF2 instead of goldenface and many people have told me she could be a skyblue violet instead of a cobalt so I don't know for sure..

Sonny is a goldenface dominant pied cobalt. I know for sure he is a goldenface even though I've also been told he could be a YF2. And many have also told me he could be skyblue violet instead of cobalt.

And I have another bird.. she is a recessive pied skyblue violet but no one can tell me for sure if she is a YF1 or YF2 since her yellow is all over but it doesn't bleed into the blue part of her. Someone told me she could be a YF1 masking YF2.. but again I don't know for sure :S

Mutations are so confusing!
 

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It is confusing and can be frustrating. Definitely. :rolleyes:

I think part of the problem is that there are 3 pied varieties, and a bird can have any combination of the 3. Your bird could be both dominant and clearflight pied, dominant and recessive pied, etc. That didn't initially make any sense to me, because it seems like they should be mutually exclusive. But, 'tis not the case. Any bird can have any combination. It is possible those attempting to identify your bird did not contemplate a mixture of pied mutations. Just a guess on my part.

http://www.***************/gen_clearflight.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Wonderbird said:
A clearflight pied has a solid body color with clear flight feathers. Yes Toby has clear flights, but Toby has some clear patches on the left side of his belly and a small one on his right. Dominant pieds have clear patches in the body color, many with a clear band around its belly. Much of what I am talking about is coming from Gerald Binks' book "The Challenge". Gerald Binks is a famous British breeder with 60 years of experience.

Is he right? I don't know. :)


Well don't take my word for it. I'm not an expert! He could be both dominant pied and clearflight pied. But honestly I don't know :eek:

Well my point in my question is not the answer :)eek:), it's that although he's a famous person and another person with decades of experience, is he right? What is the consensus?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It is confusing and can be frustrating. Definitely. :rolleyes:

I think part of the problem is that there are 3 pied varieties, and a bird can have any combination of the 3. Your bird could be both dominant and clearflight pied, dominant and recessive pied, etc. That didn't initially make any sense to me, because it seems like they should be mutually exclusive. But, 'tis not the case. Any bird can have any combination. It is possible those attempting to identify your bird did not contemplate a mixture of pied mutations. Just a guess on my part.

http://www.***************/gen_clearflight.html
My point isn't in typing this particular bird, it's the subjectivity of the answer or answers one might get.

With regards to the budgieplace site, I think it is wonderful. Mindy Amaral has definitely done her research well. But where are the references? I looked for them and didn't find them. Where is this data coming from? I've written her and asked and she's never returned my emails. :S
 
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