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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These two are my favorite budgies I own colour wise and I was just wondering what I would get if I bred them when they were old enough?


I'm not exactly sure on what she is, I've been told she was a fallow and a clearwing though.
She's got the reddest eyes i've ever seen on a budgie and also a very feint blue that runs down her chest, you can only see it if you really focus on it.



I think he's a yellow face type II. He's got blue and green divided on his chest.
He's currently going through bird puberty :)
 

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I don't know if your female is a clearwing since she has undulations on the bottoms of her wings and clearwings are supposed to have all clear wings. She looks like the opposite of a clearflight pied... o_O I have never seen a budgie with clear wings at the top and markings on the bottoms, so I have no idea what she could be. But I made the Punnett squares as if she were a clearwing just in case.
Assuming neither bird is split for anything, 50% of the babies will be single factor yellowface type II cobalts split for fallow, while the other 50% will be single factor yellowface type II sky blues split for fallow. But that's only if the female is a clearwing (which she probably isn't, but I'm looking forward to finding out what she is)! :)
So only the male's mutations will show and since he's double factor yellow face, none of the babies will look like him. They won't be half blue half green, they will all have yellow faces and completely sea green bodies. Of course there could be other mutations hiding in the parents, but based on visuals, that's what the chicks will mostly likely look like. It would definitely be at least a little easier to tell with better pictures of the birds. :)
 

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Can we get some more clear pictures of both birds sitting on their own? It is very hard to tell their full mutations when we can only see a small part of their bodies from one angle while being held :)

Your female is not a clearflight or a clearwing from what I can see, does she have red eyes? They look black in the pics... She is definatly an opaline.

Your male is a cobalt (or sky violet, again it is hard to tell since both pics are in different lighting and have a different shade and we can only see part of the bird) sf yelowface II normal from the look of him.

Again, better pics would be very helpful :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I took some new pics, hopefully these ones will be better.









So if I breed them will they only turn out like a **** bird and show no traces of the hens mutation? I read somewhere when I was looking up how to breed her that if she's got red eyes and an iris then it's sex-linked, meaning all the boys would come out like her, is this true even though she's not Lutino or Albino?
 

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So if I breed them will they only turn out like a **** bird and show no traces of the hens mutation? I read somewhere when I was looking up how to breed her that if she's got red eyes and an iris then it's sex-linked, meaning all the boys would come out like her, is this true even though she's not Lutino or Albino?
I can see now that she does have markings all over her wings. So she's definitely a fallow but she's neither a clearwing nor a clearflight pied. I can see that she looks kind of like an opaline as well, but I can't be too sure. Either way, it won't show up on the babies since it's recessive (and sex-linked, so only the males will be carriers).
Fallow isn't a sex-linked mutation, and if it were, the recessive mutations would only show up on females (not the male offspring) since with birds the sex chromosomes are switched around so females have ZW (XY) while males have ZZ (XX). So the babies will turn out like the father since fallow is recessive.
Also, I could be wrong, but with the additional pictures, your male sort of looks like a full body colour greywing, especially in the last picture, but I can't be sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate! All this stuff is really hard to understand for me and i'm really fortunate i've got you experts here to point me in the right direction:p

Since all the babies from this pair will look like the father do you think that I should pair them up with others? I really have no clue what to pair the hen up with, I've had budgies since I was 6 (20 now) and i've never seen a budgie like her before. If i breed her, I want the babies to have a mixed bag of babies. Would I have to breed her with another fallow to get her colour to pop up again?

As for the ****, I've also never seen one like him and also wanted to breed so he could spread his "uniqueness" but since the divided colour won't show up I don't know who to breed him with anymore. If I breed him with this female will there be multiple colours or will they take on the characteristics of a certain parent?

I think she's a yellow face grey wing? She's got red eyes.


Also, if I breed the **** with a lutino or albino hen will the female babies pop out exactly like the father (with the blue and green chest)
 

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Since all the babies from this pair will look like the father do you think that I should pair them up with others? I really have no clue what to pair the hen up with, I've had budgies since I was 6 (20 now) and i've never seen a budgie like her before. If i breed her, I want the babies to have a mixed bag of babies. Would I have to breed her with another fallow to get her colour to pop up again?

As for the ****, I've also never seen one like him and also wanted to breed so he could spread his "uniqueness" but since the divided colour won't show up I don't know who to breed him with anymore. If I breed him with this female will there be multiple colours or will they take on the characteristics of a certain parent?

I think she's a yellow face grey wing? She's got red eyes.

Also, if I breed the **** with a lutino or albino hen will the female babies pop out exactly like the father (with the blue and green chest)
The only way to get babies that look like their mother is to breed her with another fallow budgie or a budgie split for fallow. Go back to the place you got the female and try to find an unrelated fallow. If there aren't any fallows around the only thing you could do to get more is to line breed the mother to one of her male chicks split for fallow, but I don't recommend it. Line breeding is a form of inbreeding and it can be very dangerous to the health of the chicks.

For the male, if you breed him with a yellow face type II without the split colour (single factor), half the babies will be green and blue, while the other half will be completely sea green. So 50% will look like the father, and 50% will look like the mother. The only way to get 100% chicks with green and blue is to mate your male with another double factor yellow face type II.

The female in the picture isn't a greywing, she actually kind of looks like another fallow and since she has red eyes, that's a good indicator of a fallow. Did you get her from the same place as you got the first fallow female? She's definitely a yellowface, but I can't tell if she's type I or type II. Do you have any other pictures of her? If she really is a fallow, you can breed her to any male while breeding your other fallow female to any male, then all of the chicks produced will be split for fallow, and you can then breed a female from one nest to a male from the other nest to get some more fallows. (25% of the babies will be fallows in a cross between two birds split for fallow).

If you breed the male to an ino (albino or lutino) female, the babies will be:
50% single factor yellowface type II male split for ino
50% single factor yellowface type II female
So none of the babies will look like the father or the mother.
Ino is recessive sex-linked, so you need either another ino in order to produce all ino chicks or an ino male with a normal female to produce ino females and males split for ino. Or an ino female and a male split for ino.
The only way to get the babies to "pop out exactly like the father" is to breed the father with another double factor yellowface type II or with a single factor yellowface type II.
I hope I helped, good luck! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The only way to get babies that look like their mother is to breed her with another fallow budgie or a budgie split for fallow. Go back to the place you got the female and try to find an unrelated fallow. If there aren't any fallows around the only thing you could do to get more is to line breed the mother to one of her male chicks split for fallow, but I don't recommend it. Line breeding is a form of inbreeding and it can be very dangerous to the health of the chicks.

For the male, if you breed him with a yellow face type II without the split colour (single factor), half the babies will be green and blue, while the other half will be completely sea green. So 50% will look like the father, and 50% will look like the mother. The only way to get 100% chicks with green and blue is to mate your male with another double factor yellow face type II.

The female in the picture isn't a greywing, she actually kind of looks like another fallow and since she has red eyes, that's a good indicator of a fallow. Did you get her from the same place as you got the first fallow female? She's definitely a yellowface, but I can't tell if she's type I or type II. Do you have any other pictures of her? If she really is a fallow, you can breed her to any male while breeding your other fallow female to any male, then all of the chicks produced will be split for fallow, and you can then breed a female from one nest to a male from the other nest to get some more fallows. (25% of the babies will be fallows in a cross between two birds split for fallow).

If you breed the male to an ino (albino or lutino) female, the babies will be:
50% single factor yellowface type II male split for ino
50% single factor yellowface type II female
So none of the babies will look like the father or the mother.
Ino is recessive sex-linked, so you need either another ino in order to produce all ino chicks or an ino male with a normal female to produce ino females and males split for ino. Or an ino female and a male split for ino.
The only way to get the babies to "pop out exactly like the father" is to breed the father with another double factor yellowface type II or with a single factor yellowface type II.
I hope I helped, good luck! :)
Thanks for your help! I guess I'll be on the lookout for similar looking budgies:p As for the pics of the yellow one, i'll try to get some new photos soon:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Here are the pictures of the yellow hen, I temporarily moved her into a smaller cage to take pictures. I'm pretty sure it's a fallow now since it's nearly exactly the same as the white one, but would just like to get confirmation.




If I bred two fallows, that are for example one white and one yellow like the ones I have, would the chicks have a 50% chance of white and 50% of yellow?

If I bred a fallow with a lutino or albino would I get any fallow's in the clutch?
 

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Here are the pictures of the yellow hen, I temporarily moved her into a smaller cage to take pictures. I'm pretty sure it's a fallow now since it's nearly exactly the same as the white one, but would just like to get confirmation.

If I bred two fallows, that are for example one white and one yellow like the ones I have, would the chicks have a 50% chance of white and 50% of yellow?

If I bred a fallow with a lutino or albino would I get any fallow's in the clutch?
Well, that's definitely a fallow! :)

If you bred a white base and a yellow base fallow together, your chances would only be 50/50 if the yellow fallow was split for white base. Otherwise all the babies would be yellow fallows split for white.

If you bred a female fallow to a male ino (lutino or albino), you wouldn't get any fallows unless the ino was split for fallow and even then you would only have a 25% chance of getting one and it would never be a female. The results of this cross would be:
25% normal male split for fallow and ino
25% fallow male split for ino
25% ino female split for fallow
25% ino female masking fallow
So when both fallow and ino are there, ino masks the fallow colouration.
If the ino wasn't split for fallow, you would have a 50% chance of getting normal males split for ino and fallow, and 50% chance of getting ino females split for fallow (if the ino is male and the fallow is female). If the ino is female and the fallow is male, all the chicks will be normal budgies split for fallow and ino.

Your best bet is to breed your yellow fallow to a blue male of any mutation to get chicks split for fallow and white base, and breed your white fallow to any blue male to get blue chicks split for fallow. Then breed a yellow base male or female from the yellow fallow's clutch with a male/female from the white fallow's clutch to get some white and some yellow fallow babies! :)
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, that's definitely a fallow! :)

If you bred a white base and a yellow base fallow together, your chances would only be 50/50 if the yellow fallow was split for white base. Otherwise all the babies would be yellow fallows split for white.

If you bred a female fallow to a male ino (lutino or albino), you wouldn't get any fallows unless the ino was split for fallow and even then you would only have a 25% chance of getting one and it would never be a female. The results of this cross would be:
25% normal male split for fallow and ino
25% fallow male split for ino
25% ino female split for fallow
25% ino female masking fallow
So when both fallow and ino are there, ino masks the fallow colouration.
If the ino wasn't split for fallow, you would have a 50% chance of getting normal males split for ino and fallow, and 50% chance of getting ino females split for fallow (if the ino is male and the fallow is female). If the ino is female and the fallow is male, all the chicks will be normal budgies split for fallow and ino.

Your best bet is to breed your yellow fallow to a blue male of any mutation to get chicks split for fallow and white base, and breed your white fallow to any blue male to get blue chicks split for fallow. Then breed a yellow base male or female from the yellow fallow's clutch with a male/female from the white fallow's clutch to get some white and some yellow fallow babies! :)
Good luck!
Thanks for the help Misslistless:). I'm a bit gutted I won't get any fallows if I breed with an Ino, but on the plus side im going back to my same breeder this Sunday so i'll have a look at her flock and hopefully she'll have something for me.
I'll probably end up buying some budgies off of her regardless if she has any fallows available or not. I'll update this thread with any purchases I make :)

I'll update thi
 

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Thanks for the help Misslistless:). I'm a bit gutted I won't get any fallows if I breed with an Ino, but on the plus side im going back to my same breeder this Sunday so i'll have a look at her flock and hopefully she'll have something for me.
I'll probably end up buying some budgies off of her regardless if she has any fallows available or not. I'll update this thread with any purchases I make :)

I'll update thi
Well when you go there, if you find any more fallows, make sure they're not related to the ones you already have if you plan on breeding them. :)
I think the mutation that would work best for you is lacewing. They're a mix between cinnamon and ino (just like how dark eyed clears are a mix between recessive pieds and clearflight pieds)! And it sounds like you've got a lot of inos. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well when you go there, if you find any more fallows, make sure they're not related to the ones you already have if you plan on breeding them. :)
I think the mutation that would work best for you is lacewing. They're a mix between cinnamon and ino (just like how dark eyed clears are a mix between recessive pieds and clearflight pieds)! And it sounds like you've got a lot of inos. :p
Could you elaborate on why lacewings would be best and the best way to identify them? Just so I know what to look for. Out of my 28 budgies I've only got 1 ino. Before I knew what fallows were I thought my fallows were just really fancy lutino's and albino's. Shows how much I know about mutations :(
 

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Could you elaborate on why lacewings would be best and the best way to identify them? Just so I know what to look for. Out of my 28 budgies I've only got 1 ino. Before I knew what fallows were I thought my fallows were just really fancy lutino's and albino's. Shows how much I know about mutations :(
Lacewings look a lot like fallows, they are mainly white/yellow with red eyes, and their head, wings and tail are a light cinnamon colour (a light brown colour). Fallows often have a bit of body colour (blue or green) on their backs, on or around their wings. Fallow's body colour is gradually diluted and is most visible on the rump. With lacewings, they don't usually have any body colour. Lacewings have pale violet cheek patches while fallows have normal violet cheek patches.
 

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Both of your females are opaline lacewings not fallows, and beautiful ones at that! :) The second female is a yellowface rather than a green based.

Since lacewing is a sex linked mutation their sons will all be split for it, and about half of their daughters will be lacewings :) Here are some additions lacewing expectations: http://cutelittlebirdiesaviary.weebly.com/lacewing-expectations.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Both of your females are opaline lacewings not fallows, and beautiful ones at that! :) The second female is a yellowface rather than a green based.

Since lacewing is a sex linked mutation their sons will all be split for it, and about half of their daughters will be lacewings :) Here are some additions lacewing expectations: http://cutelittlebirdiesaviary.weebly.com/lacewing-expectations.html
The white one has light blue on it's body, so wouldn't that make it a fallow? The yellow one has no colour so that'd make it a lacewing?
 

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The white one has light blue on it's body, so wouldn't that make it a fallow? The yellow one has no colour so that'd make it a lacewing?
Lacewings can have suffusion or color on their body, it is not a quality that is ideal or bred for in them though. It happens when the ino gene does not completely remove all of the pigment as it should, leaving some of the color that would normally be present. It is usually the most visible when te bird is masking blue rather than grey :)
 

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Here is one of my opaline lacewings Kaili, she has a lot of suffusion although it does not show as well in these pics as it does in person :)






 

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If you're thinking of going back to the breeder who sold you the birds anyways, you can always try asking them what the mutation is since autosomal recessive inheritance (fallow) and sex-linked recessive co-dominant inheritance (lacewing) have different identifying characteristics in terms of pedigree, so the breeder should know what the birds are. If the breeder doesn't know, the only other way of knowing for sure is to breed them yourself or get DNA testing done (which is expensive). o_O

Breed them with an ino male to find out. If they're lacewings, breeding them with an ino male should result in 100% ino chicks (50% male split for cinnamon and 50% female). If they're fallows, breeding them with an ino male should result in 50% female ino chicks (all female split for fallow) and 50% normal male chicks (split for ino and fallow). So if you breed your females with ino males, and you get any normal chicks, or only ino females, you know it's fallow, but if you get all inos, or at least an ino male (which you can't get from a mix between a fallow and an ino), then you know it's lacewing. :)

Good luck! They're probably lacewings, but I'm still excited to see what you get! :D
 

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Since lacewing is a sex linked mutation their sons will all be split for it, and about half of their daughters will be lacewings :)
Wait, what cross are you talking about? :S Is that if you mate the females with a normal male...? I thought the only way for their daughters to have it is if the lacewing is a male. A female lacewing bred with a normal male should result in normal males split for lacewing (or ino and cinnamon) and normal females. A male lacewing bred with a normal female should result in males split for lacewing and lacewing females. And wouldn't all their daughters be lacewings, instead of half? But both birds are female... :p I'm so confused now! :S

P.S. Kaili is gorgeous! :D
 
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