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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would love to breed more english budgies. The only problem is I need help breeding the color mutations I enjoy. I would like help trying to breed the mutations. If you visit my site and click on ( My birds ) at the top of the screen I have a list of my birds. Thanks

white cinnamon spangle english
bright purple spangle english
blue clearflifgt english
cobalt clearflight opaline english
white recessive pied english
mauve spangle opaline english
rainbow english
spotted english
 

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you have a lot of budgies:)
stella is a very nice marked opaline:)
unfortunatly i am no good at breeding and outcomes of mutations.
 

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Im not sure what you mean by english? Do you mean they are show type budgies? Or budgies from england? England has pet type and show type as well, and going by the pics on your website, your birds appear to be closer to the pet variety in traits. I dont mean that harshly, im just saying that is the discernable appearance.

Or are you referring to birds not shown on your website?

Having said that there are some corrections i noted on the mutations listed on your website -

Jazz: Normal green **** (cant be split for both greywing and clearwing - how did you come to that conclusion?)

Grace: Greyn green dominant pied hen (not clearflight, not split recessive)

Willow: YF2 sky blue **** (cant be split for mauve or 'white face', split for opaline if his mother was opaline, or his father was opaline and his mother was normal, doesnt appear split for recessive either - does he have a pied patch?)

Storm: Opaline mauve hen (split for recessive you say - does she have a pied spot?)

Kingsley: Normal DF violet cobalt **** (could be SF, but appears DF)

Stella: Opaline cobalt hen (looks to me to be a SF violet sky blue, need a front on pic)

Diego: (Young) YF2 dominant pied opaline clearwing sky blue **** (could be greywing)

La Fiesta: YF2 opaline clearwing clearflight pied sky blue hen

Pippa: Normal sky blue **** (cannot be split for cobalt, doesnt appear to have a pied patch, could be split for opaline or grewying but only if you know his parentage although he does have some opalescence)

Liberty: Normal olive green hen (cannot be split for opaline, has no pied patch so doesnt appear split for recessive, could be split for blue but only if you have bred from her or know parentage)

Zeus: Spangle sky blue **** (is not a spangle opaline, may be split for opaline but only if you know parentage, doesnt appear split for it)

Athena: Normal Sky blue hen

Lime: Olive greywing **** (could be FBC greywing, but i cant see enough colour front on to estimate dilution, appears to be a normal greywing so the genes arent 'hidden', could be split for blue if you know parentage).

GingerL Olive green cinnamon hen

Most of these pairs look good. Depends on what you are wanting?
 

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Jazz & Grace.
Grace is a grey green dominant pied, not cleaflight or olive. (All types of pieds have the pied spot on their heads)
The chicks should about 50% dominant pied and 50% normals. About half greens and half grey greens. If Jazz is split for either greywing or clearwing these mutations will only appear in the chick if Grace also carries the genes. If Grace is split for recessive pied there won't be any recessive pied chicks unless Jazz also has the gene. If Grace is split for blue there could be some blue or grey chicks

Willow & Storm
A sky blue can't have genes for mauve and a yellow face can't be split for white face. If you have judged Storm's colour right the chicks should all be cobalt.
18.75% Normal cobalt
6.25% Recessive pied cobalt
18.75% Opaline cobalt
6.25% Opaline recessive pied cobalt
18.75% Yellow face Cobalt
6.25% Yellow face recessive pied cobalt
18.75% Yellow face opaline cobalt
6.25% Yellow face recessive pied opaline cobalt

Zeus & Athena
Assuming no hidden genes show up:
50% Spangle sky blue
50% normal sky blue

Deigo x Le fieasta
These two should produce beautiful chicks. Most of them should be similar to the parents but there could be some white faces. The chicks will all inherit the opaline and the clearwing or greywing and at least 75% should inherit the yellow face. Deigo's dominant pied will be inherited by about half the chicks.

Kingsley x Stella
Kingsley looks like a double factor violet cobalt. If he is all the chicks will inherit a single violet factor. There should be 50% single factor violet cobalt, 25% single factor violet sky blue & 25% single factor violet mauve. You will only get opaline chicks if Kingsley is split for opaline

Pippa & Liberty
A female can't carry opaline in a hidden form so Liberty cannot be carrying opaline genes. If they are both split for blue and recessive pied and Pippa is split for opaline you should get:
18.75% dark green males
18.75% cobalt males
6.25% recessive pied dark green males
6.25% recessive pied cobalt males
9.375% dark green females
9.375% cobalt females
3.125% recessive pied dark green females
3.125% recessive pied cobalt females
9.375% opaline dark green females
9.375% opaline cobalt females
3.125% opaline recessive pied dark green females
3.125% opaline recessive pied cobalt females

Your birds are very beautiful but I would not have described them as English exhibition types
 

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The easiest way to breed spangles is to use one double factor spangle in each breeding pair. Double factor spangles look like lutinos/albinos, I'm not sure about the specifics, but there's heaps of info about them in the forums. A double factor can be produced from two single factor spangles. Hope this helps. Good luck, your birds are beautiful. :)
 

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If you'd like an invaluable source for breeding specific colors or mutations, I'd highly recommend a book entitled Budgerigar Matings and Colour Expectations originally compiled by Dr. D.H. Duncker and revised, in the 10th edition, by R.K. Bissell. It has been available, from time to time from the American Budgerigar Society and, occasionally, appears on eBay. They can be expensive (a friend paid $75.00 for his copy) but are well worth the money.

Check out ABS.
 

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Did you get the pedigrees on your English? Haven't visited your site, but if your birds are closed banded go back to the person you bought from and ask for pedigrees on the birds they sold you. I've always found a nice letter asking for the pedigree (and be sure to include all the info on the band) with a self addressed stamped return envelope gets good results. If the birds are not banded the breeder is not an exhibition breeder.

Kerry

I would love to breed more english budgies. The only problem is I need help breeding the color mutations I enjoy. I would like help trying to breed the mutations. If you visit my site and click on ( My birds ) at the top of the screen I have a list of my birds. Thanks

white cinnamon spangle english
bright purple spangle english
blue clearflifgt english
cobalt clearflight opaline english
white recessive pied english
mauve spangle opaline english
rainbow english
spotted english
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok so my computer has been down for some time and I haven't been able to answer some of your questions. So first I will have to thank the people who tried to help me with my breeding pairs. Second I will have to answer some questions. What I meant by English budgies was the show type. In the future I would like to breed only show type budgies. Third I will correct and answer the questions about My birds mutations. To make this easy I will name each bird and their mutation and a brief description why I think they might be carrying a specific mutation. I also still have questions about some mutations after the descriptions of each bird. It would be great if some one could help me with them.

Jazz: Normal green carrying grey wing and clear wing
Mother is an olive full color grey wing
Father was a bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Siblings
1 olive green full color grey wing
2 bright green full color grey wing
3 bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive green on her belly
Jazz was the only normal chick out of 10 chicks
Jazz was paired with Grace a olive green clear flight hen
Their chicks
1 olive green normal
2 olive green clear flight

My question is wouldn't his parents genes (grey wing and clear wing) be carried but wouldn't show unless he was paired with a grey wing or clear wing?

Grace: olive green clear flight with a recessive pied spot on the back of her head
I don't know what Grace's parents or siblings looked like
Grace was paired with Jazz a normal green ****
Their chicks
1 olive green normal
2 olive green clear flight

The second chick only had clear flight feathers. I agree that Grace looks like she is a dominant pied but wouldn't her chick be dominant pied and not a true clear flight? My second question is doesn't the spot on the back of her head indicate that Grace is carrying the recessive gene?

Willow: YF2 sky blue carrying mauve white face opaline recessive
Mother is mauve opaline white face carrying recessive pied
Father was a bright green full color grey wing
Siblings where
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal olive green
Willow was paired with a 2 factor violet cinnamon hen
Their chicks
1 normal opaline mauve white face
2 normal opaline mauve YF1 this chick had flecks of sky blue in it's body most likely the result of being 1factor violet
3 recessive pied YFT2 with a patch of sky blue on his belly

Willow obviously is carrying opaline because two of his chicks showed opaline. Opaline is a sexlinked gene and must be carried by the male. I'm not sure if Willow is carrying a dark factor from him mother but both of his chicks where mauve just like Willows mother. Do you think he is carrying a dark factor instead of mauve? willow is also carrying recessive pied because one of his chicks was recessive pied. Last question can a YF bird carry white face?

Storm: normal opaline mauve carrying recessive pied
I don't know what Storm's parents or siblings looked like
Storm was paired with a bright green full color grey wing
Their chicks
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal olive green
3 YF2 sky blue

Storm is carrying recessive pied because one of her chick is recessive pied

Kingsley: Normal 2 factor violet he is the brightest violet budgie I have ever seen. Photos don't show his true color
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like.
He has not been bred yet either

I'm not to sure what SF DF means but I think It might have something to do with the saturation of Kingsley's color. Like I said he is the brightest violet budgie I have ever seen I don't think he is SF or DF.

Stella: normal opaline cobalt
I don't know what Stella's parents or siblings looked like
She hasn't been bred yet

I'm still not sure what SF means can some one explain? And i'm not sue why you would call her a Violet sky blue?

Diego: YF2 opaline clearwing clearflight sky blue carrying recessive pied
I don't know what Diego's parents or siblings looked like.
Diego hasn't been bred yet

Diego has a recessive pied spot. Why would you say Diego is dominant pied and clear wing, is that possible to be two at the same time? And I'm still not clear on telling a clear wing from a grey wing would someone like to explain? Diego is a rainbow with a little something extra wouldn't you say?

La Fiesta: YF2 opaline clearwing clearflight sky blue carrying recessive pied
I don't know what Diego's parents or siblings looked like.
Diego hasn't been bred yet

La fiesta is a rainbow with clear flights and a recessive peid spot

Pippa: Normal sky blue carrying opaline greywing recessive pied
Mother cobalt full color greywing
Father Normal YFT2 sky blue
Siblings where
1 normal YFT2 sky blue
2 normal sky blue
3 recessive pied YFT2 with a patch of sky blue on her belly
4 recessive pied with cobalt blue patch on his belly
5 recessive pied with a band of head stripes and a cobalt blue belly patch

Why can't a sky blue bird carry cobalt? Pippa's mother was carrying grey wing, opaline and recessive pied. I'm not sure what you mean by opalescence?

Liberty: Normal olive green
Mother normal opaline mauve
Father bright green full color grey wing
Siblings where
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal sky blue YFT2

Liberty's mother was opaline and carried recessive pied. I'm assuming liberty is carrying blue because her mother was mauve and at the base of Liberty's tail is a bluish tint.

Zeus: Spangle opaline sky blue (English or show type)
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like
Zeus hasn't been bred

Isn't Zeus an opaline or are the grey stripes on his neck from the spangle? Is a spangles wing color always grey or can it be black?

Athena: Normal Sky blue (English shoe type)
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like
Athena hasn't been bred

Lime: olive green full color greywing carrying clear wing and blue
Mother cobalt full color grey wing
Father Father was a bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Siblings where
1 bright yellow clearwing with a green patch on her belly
2 yellow clearwing with olive green on his belly and back
Lime was paired with a yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Their chicks
1 olive green grey wing
2 bright green full color grey wing
3 bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive green on her belly
4 normal green

I think Lime is dark enough to be called a full color greywing. She may carry clear wing from her father and blur from her mother.

Ginger: Olive green cinnamon
I don't know what her parents or siblings looked like
she hasn't been bred yet
 

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I have attempted to reply to most parts of your post. I hope i got everything :)

Ok so my computer has been down for some time and I haven't been able to answer some of your questions. So first I will have to thank the people who tried to help me with my breeding pairs. Second I will have to answer some questions. What I meant by English budgies was the show type. In the future I would like to breed only show type budgies. Third I will correct and answer the questions about My birds mutations. To make this easy I will name each bird and their mutation and a brief description why I think they might be carrying a specific mutation. I also still have questions about some mutations after the descriptions of each bird. It would be great if some one could help me with them.

Jazz: Normal green carrying grey wing and clear wing If he carried greywing and clearwing, he would be a full body coloured greywing.
Mother is an olive full color grey wing
Father was a bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Siblings
1 olive green full color grey wing
2 bright green full color grey wing
3 bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive green on her belly
Jazz was the only normal chick out of 10 chicks This is impossible given that both parents carry 2 recessive genes - they can only have clearwing and full body colour greywing chicks - he must have had another father
Jazz was paired with Grace a olive green clear flight hen
Their chicks
1 olive green normal
2 olive green clear flight

My question is wouldn't his parents genes (grey wing and clear wing) be carried but wouldn't show unless he was paired with a grey wing or clear wing? If his mother is for sure the one who laid him, then he will carry either greywying OR clearwing and 1 normal gene, he cannot carry both or he would be full body colorued grey wing as mentioned above

Grace: olive green clear flight with a recessive pied spot on the back of her head
I don't know what Grace's parents or siblings looked like
Grace was paired with Jazz a normal green ****
Their chicks
1 olive green normal
2 olive green clear flight

The second chick only had clear flight feathers. I agree that Grace looks like she is a dominant pied but wouldn't her chick be dominant pied and not a true clear flight? My second question is doesn't the spot on the back of her head indicate that Grace is carrying the recessive gene?The clear patches in dominant pied birds varies greatly, some are are almost completely clear and appear similar to double factor dominant pieds, some have very little clear patches as is most likely what has happened here. Grace is dominant pied, as is her chick. The clear spot on the head is called the PIED PATCH or PIED SPOT, and is present in all pied mutations. If you have a bird with no clear patches and ONLY a head spot, this usually indicates recessive pied which is the only pied that can be carried in split form (yet it still exerts enough effect to create the pied patch). I dont know if a bird can carry recesive pied in split form and NOT show the spot. As far as i have heard and seen, all recessive splits have the spot.

Willow: YF2 sky blue carrying mauve white face opaline recessive It is impossible to get a sky blue from a mauve parent. Mauve indicates 2 dark factors. A **** with zero dark factors mated to a 2 dark factor hen will produce all single factor dark chicks. A single factor dark **** with a 2 dark factor hen will only produce chicks with 1 and 2 dark factors. Sky blue and light green is impossible. If there was a sky blue/light green and a mauve/olive chick in the same nest, both parents can only be cobalt/dark green
Mother is mauve opaline white face carrying recessive pied Doesnt mean her chicks will get it, and doesnt appear to have passed to willow unless he has a pied patch, which i dont recall seeing in the pic.
Father was a bright green full color grey wing
Siblings where
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly A mauve hen and a light green **** could only have produced cobalts and dark greens. Both parents would have had to have been split for recessive pied and have the pied patch to produce a recessive pied chick.
2 normal olive green To get an olive, the father must have been a normal green, not a bright/light green - so the father had 1 dark factor, mother had 2 dark factors.

Willow was paired with a 2 factor violet cinnamon hen
Their chicks
1 normal opaline mauve white face If willow is sky blue, he cannot produce mauves. Ever.
2 normal opaline mauve YF1 this chick had flecks of sky blue in it's body most likely the result of being 1factor violet. This chick is likely a poorly coloured YF2, see below for explanation.
3 recessive pied YFT2 with a patch of sky blue on his belly
Impossible to breed a YF1, YF2 and white face from the same parents. I could go into the detailed genetics but it would be a lengthy explanation. Basically a YF2 paired with a white face can only produce two types of chicks - YF2s and YF1s with NO white faces, or YF2s and white faces with NO YF1's. You cannot possibly get all 3 in the same nest.

Willow obviously is carrying opaline because two of his chicks showed opaline. Correct, his mother is opaline, he is split for opaline, he can only produce female opalines and has done so_Opaline is a sexlinked gene and must be carried by the male. I'm not sure if Willow is carrying a dark factor from him mother but both of his chicks where mauve just like Willows mother. Do you think he is carrying a dark factor instead of mauve? Im not sure how you got confused here. Dark factors are not seperate from mauve. Zero dark factor = base colour skye blue and light green. One dark factor = cobalt and dark green. Two dark factor = mauve and olive green. willow is also carrying recessive pied because one of his chicks was recessive pied. If this is true, and he was 100% for sure the father then i happily stand corrected Last question can a YF bird carry white face? Yes and no. Its hard to explain, but if you want to take the time, i have outlined the details of yellow face genetics herehttp://www.talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=37819

Storm: normal opaline mauve carrying recessive pied mauves cannot produce sky blues. Ever. Looking back at her picture she is a puzzling colour, to be honest she looks like a skyblue slate. There is something unusual about her - she looks mauve but has sky blue colour poking out and i dont know if she's a mauve with patchy colour, or a sky blue with a colour adding gene which i suspect could be slate but i dont know if USA have slates. Its very unusualy and if she has had sky blue chicks she could only be sky blue or cobalt herself not mauve.
I don't know what Storm's parents or siblings looked like
Storm was paired with a bright green full color grey wing
Their chicks
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal olive green
3 YF2 sky blue

Storm is carrying recessive pied because one of her chick is recessive pied Most likely you are correct, i just cant see the back of her head in the photos.

Kingsley: Normal 2 factor violet he is the brightest violet budgie I have ever seen. Photos don't show his true color
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like.
He has not been bred yet either

I'm not to sure what SF DF means but I think It might have something to do with the saturation of Kingsley's color. Like I said he is the brightest violet budgie I have ever seen I don't think he is SF or DF. SF and DF are short terms for Single Factor and Double Factor. I meant to say he appears to be a Double Factor violet cobalt, his violet appears far too strong and well coloured to be a single factor violet. He is a double factor, which means paired to a sky blue hen with NO violet, ALL his chicks will be single factor violet. If you pair him to a single factor violet hen, all his chicks will be either single or double factor violets.

Stella: normal opaline cobalt
I don't know what Stella's parents or siblings looked like
She hasn't been bred yet

I'm still not sure what SF means can some one explain? And i'm not sue why you would call her a Violet sky blue? I need to see her chest and belly colour to be certain, but sometimes violet sky blues can look like normal cobalts. I noticed a small amount of violet flush around her neck so she could be a violet skyblue, but its likely she is a normal opaline cobalt as you said - just was curious and wanted a better look to be sure for myself.

Diego: YF2 opaline clearwing clearflight sky blue carrying recessive pied he has a pied spot from his pied mutation, and he appears to be a dominant pied not clearflight pied and not split for recessive pied.
I don't know what Diego's parents or siblings looked like.
Diego hasn't been bred yet

Diego has a recessive pied spot. Why would you say Diego is dominant pied and clear wing, is that possible to be two at the same time? And I'm still not clear on telling a clear wing from a grey wing would someone like to explain? Diego is a rainbow with a little something extra wouldn't you say? Diego does not have a recessive pied spot. He has a PIED spot that comes with all pied mutations. He is 100% a dominant pied, not clearflight pied, not recessive or split recessive. I said he 'could' be greywing (full body colour greywing if anything), but it is likely that he is a YF2 dominant pied opaline clearwing

La Fiesta: YF2 opaline clearwing clearflight sky blue carrying recessive pied
I don't know what Diego's parents or siblings looked like.
Diego hasn't been bred yet

La fiesta is a rainbow with clear flights and a recessive peid spot. Again, she has a pied spot, not a 'recessive' pied spot. She has feather loss or trimmed feathers which make it difficult to see her flights, but in all likelihood she is a clearflight pied, not dominant pied, not recessive or split for recessive.

Pippa: Normal sky blue carrying opaline greywing recessive pied
Mother cobalt full color greywing
Father Normal YFT2 sky blue
Siblings where
1 normal YFT2 sky blue
2 normal sky blue
3 recessive pied YFT2 with a patch of sky blue on her belly
4 recessive pied with cobalt blue patch on his belly
5 recessive pied with a band of head stripes and a cobalt blue belly patch

Why can't a sky blue bird carry cobalt? Pippa's mother was carrying grey wing, opaline and recessive pied. I'm not sure what you mean by opalescence?If his mother was a greywing and he is not, yes he is carrying greywing. If his mother was CARRYING greywing but was NOT greywing herself, there is only a 50% chance she passed that on to him and it is impossible to tell without breeding him to a clearwing, greywing or full body colorued greywing. The same goes for recessive pied. If she was recessive pied he will be split and most likely have a pied patch, if she was carrying recessive pied she only had a 50% chance to pass this on to him. It is not guaranteed.
A sky blue cannot carry cobalt, because a sky blue is simply a blue bird with ZERO dark factors. A sky blue and a cobalt can produce cobalt chicks (one dark factor) but this will only be because the COBALT parent passed on their dark factor and the sky blue passed on zero (0+1=1 dark factor). If his mother was an opaline, then he will be split for opaline - this explains the opalescence in the picture. Opaline causes body colour (eg sky blue) to be present in the wings and back, and sometimes it runs up into the neck as well. Cocks that are split for opaline can sometimes have some 'opalesence' meaning their is some faint body colour (usually on their neck or shoulders) that indicates some very faint colour alteration produced by the single hidden opaline gene.

Liberty: Normal olive green
Mother normal opaline mauve
Father bright green full color grey wing
Siblings where
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal sky blue YFT2 Again, its impossible for a mauve hen to produce sky blue chicks.

Liberty's mother was opaline and carried recessive pied. I'm assuming liberty is carrying blue because her mother was mauve and at the base of Liberty's tail is a bluish tint. Her mother carried opaline, which she can only pass on to her MALE chicks. If the father was opaline or split for opaline there is a chance liberty could have BEEN opaline, but hens cannot carry opaline in split form. They are either opaline or they are not. She is not. Also, her mother may have carried recessive pied, but it doesnt appear to have passed on to liberty.

Zeus: Spangle opaline sky blue (English or show type)
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like
Zeus hasn't been bred

Isn't Zeus an opaline or are the grey stripes on his neck from the spangle? Is a spangles wing color always grey or can it be black? He is not opaline, although he does have some opalescence (body colour) on his neck/head so he MAY be split for opaline. The spangle is what affects the striping on his whole body including head, neck, shoulders, wings and tail. The melanin (dark pigment) in each bird varies naturally, i have seen very faint whispy grey markings on spangles, i have seen dark black very defined markings. It varies naturally.

Athena: Normal Sky blue (English show type) Of all your birds this is the only one i would say has any english appearance to her.
I don't know what his parents or siblings looked like
Athena hasn't been bred

Lime: olive green full color greywing carrying clear wing and blue
Mother cobalt full color grey wing
Father Father was a bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Siblings where
1 bright yellow clearwing with a green patch on her belly
2 yellow clearwing with olive green on his belly and back
Lime was paired with a yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive on his belly
Their chicks
1 olive green grey wing
2 bright green full color grey wing
3 bright yellow clear wing with a small patch of olive green on her belly
4 normal green

I think Lime is dark enough to be called a full color greywing. She may carry clear wing from her father and blur from her mother.
If he is a full body coloured greywing, the greywing and clearwing genes are both being expressed visually - they are not 'hidden' genes.
It can be very hard to differentiate between dirty winged clearwings, greywings and full body coloured greywings - this may help:

Double factor clearwing x double factor clearwing= 100% clearwing chicks.
Double factor clearwing x double factor greywing = 100% full body colour greywing chicks.
Double factor clearwing x full body colour greywing (one greywing gene, one clearwing gene) = 50% double factor clearwing (two clearwing genes) 50% full body colour greywing chicks (one grewying, one clearwing gene).

Double factor greywing x double factor greywing = 100% greywing chicks.
Double factor greywing x double factor clearwing = 100% full body colour greywing chicks.
Double factor greywing x full body colour greywing (one greywing gene, one clearwing gene) = 50% double factor greywing (two greywinggenes) 50% full body colour greywing chicks (one grewying, one clearwing gene).

Full body colour grewying x full body colour greywing = 25% clearwing chicks, 50% full body colour greywing chicks, 25% greywing chicks.

As you can see, the only pairing that can produce clearwings, greywings and full body colour grewyings (FBC's) int he same nest is FBC x FBC.


Ginger: Olive green cinnamon
I don't know what her parents or siblings looked like
she hasn't been bred yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow that was a lot to take in. Thank you so much for clearing everything up for me. I think I might have a guess on Storms color. I think she is a opaline cobalt with (2 dark factors). She is carrying recessive pied as well. This color change will account for her chicks coloring
Paired with a bright green full color grey wing
1 white recessive pied with sky blue patch on his belly
2 normal olive green (2 dark factors)
3 YF2 sky blue

This also means that Willow
Paired with a 2 factor violet cinnamon hen
1 normal opaline mauve (2 dark factors) white face
2 normal opaline mauve (2 dark factors) YF2 this chick had flecks of sky blue in it's body most likely the result of being 1factor violet.
3 recessive pied YFT2 with a patch of sky blue on his belly

sorry about the mix up about YFT2 and YFT1 both chicks where YFT2

Could Willow be carrying 1 or 2 dark factors from his mother? This is my only explanation.

Oh and about recessive pied genes. A bird carrying recessive pied doesn't need the pied spot to carry the gene. I know from experience. I had two birds with no pied spot and they had recessive pied chicks.
 

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yes id also like to know

my brother has 2 male tiels and 1 fmale tiel and they are all in the same cage with a breeding box and ive told him to move one of the males as they are fighting over her whilst trying to mate and if they have chicks its gunna end up bad
he just wont listen to me:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have always cabinet breed by birds. I once had a female kill her mother because both hens where in breeding condition at the same time. They hadn't even started laying eggs yet. Sadly that female has been placed in a cage by her self because she kept attacking other hens even when they where not in breeding condition.

Cabinet breeding is a much better option when you want to study color mutations as well.
 
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