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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello
We recently rescued our little one from a previous owner. We do not know his or her age but was told he's a boy. they said he's "around 1" but I'm not sure.

I'm aware that white rings around the nostrils mean a girl, but is that perhaps only in young birds?

Any information about his genetic morph would be great, I'm very interested to know. From my research I think he might be a Single factor yellowface Dark eyed clearwing.

Thank you!
 

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Hello and welcome to the forums!

He's an absolutely gorgeous boy, what's his name? I'd be tempted to name him Butter :D

Do you mean dark eyed clear? Dark eyed clear budgies have no markings at all.

If the owner thinks he is 8 months to a year old, he still would have some irises most likely. He is a single factor yellow face combination pied budgie. This is caused by the co-dominance of the recessive and dominant pied mutations. He also appears to be greywing. Do you have a photo of his back?

Recessive pied causes a pink cere and no irises so it is not likely either of these will change into their "normal" adult forms, assuming the previous owner is correct about his age. If he does develop full irises and a more mottled appearance on his cere, he may be a double factor dominant pied. It's hard to tell at this stage.

Meanwhile, you've come to a great place to learn the best information about budgie care. Please be sure to take a look at the forums' many budgie articles and "stickies" to ensure you're up to date on everything. If you have any questions afterwards, be sure to ask as we'd love to help!

Hope to see you around! 👋
 

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Hi, Welcome to Talk Budgies!

Your little boy is SO precious! Have you chosen a name for him yet?

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello!

Thanks so much for your thoughtful detailed replies!

His name is Sunshine, and he is my sunshine for sure. I've attached a picture of his back, he has a little grey patch between his wings and a little bit of striping on his head but otherwise he's completely pale yellow. I've never seen a budgie like him! I had someone ask if he's a canary, haha!

I've attached a picture of his back. Youll see that he's been really badly clipped by the last owner, and I'd like to say that we are absolutely against this and will be allowing him to grow his wings out and will work with him to get him flying again.
 

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Ah, he’s gorgeous! Sunshine is a perfect name for him for sure. He’s neither opaline nor greywing, in fact, he’s spangle, as far as I can tell.
Also, from the spot on his back and the fact that I’m not seeing any “grizzled” appearance on his (admittedly limited ;)) barring, I think actually he’s double factor dominant pied and if that’s the case he really must be under 10 months since he hasn’t gotten irises yet.

Of course if he never developed irises we’d have to conclude he’s just an uncharacteristic combination pied ;)

He’s a grey yellowface type II spangle double factor dominant pied budgie :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ah, he’s gorgeous! Sunshine is a perfect name for him for sure. He’s neither opaline nor greywing, in fact, he’s spangle, as far as I can tell.
Also, from the spot on his back and the fact that I’m not seeing any “grizzled” appearance on his (admittedly limited ;)) barring, I think actually he’s double factor dominant pied and if that’s the case he really must be under 10 months since he hasn’t gotten irises yet.

Of course if he never developed irises we’d have to conclude he’s just an uncharacteristic combination pied ;)

He’s a grey yellowface type II spangle double factor dominant pied budgie :)
Thank you so much! Really appreciated!

Would you say that he is indeed a boy given his likely age and genetics? Or is it hard to tell at this point? We hope to get him a friend once he's settled in.


Thanks again and I hope you have a nice day!
 

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Oh I apologise for not making that clear earlier! He is without a doubt a boy, with no doubt. The only question is if he’ll get any irises or color on his cere which will clear up his mutation ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh I apologise for not making that clear earlier! He is without a doubt a boy, with no doubt. The only question is if he’ll get any irises or color on his cere which will clear up his mutation ;)
Oh thank you so much! I thought he might be seeing as you said "he" but I wasn't sure if it was certain.

I'll let you know in a few months! I'm excited to find out! He's settling in well and found his big voice now, and he's starting to get comfortable with us. I'm excited to get to know him well.

Thanks for all your help, it's a really nice place on this forum!
 

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He's very handsome, if you decide to get him a friend it would be best to get another male, then you would not have to worry about accidental breeding and the steps that need to be taken to avoid that. Two birds of the same gender can form just as close a bond as a male and female.
 

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He’s a grey yellowface type II spangle double factor dominant pied budgie :)
A very handsome guy.

@StarlingWings, Given the paleness of the yellow even at this age I'd have thought it's SF Yellowface Type 1. Could you share your thinking on this?

Also, I'd be curious to know what you see that says 'spangle' to you. This took me by surprise and again would love to benefit from your thinking on it.

I do agree that there's no question about DF Dominant Pied.
 

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A very handsome guy.

@StarlingWings, Given the paleness of the yellow even at this age I'd have thought it's SF Yellowface Type 1. Could you share your thinking on this?

Also, I'd be curious to know what you see that says 'spangle' to you. This took me by surprise and again would love to benefit from your thinking on it.

I do agree that there's no question about DF Dominant Pied.
Well, I originally thought so as well but he's just about the same color as my girl was when she was that age (on his face) and she is yellow face type II. If he's as young as it turns out he is then he will probably go through one or two moults before his yellow brightens up. Also, his body is very yellow for yellow face type I considering he is relatively young and hasn't had as many moults yet. The pied yellow face type I budgies I've seen are nearly white on their body before they're adults, although that could just be the lighting in the photo.

As for the spangle, I was the least sure about that but he for sure has some dilution of his barring and it's not greywing or opaline, as far as I can see (he has no body color dilution based on the spot on his rump, and his barring is not opaline). In the second picture top right wing you can see some feathers with normal barring; it's hard to see but it looks spangle to me.

Thoughts?
 

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As for the spangle, I was the least sure about that but he for sure has some dilution of his barring and it's not greywing or opaline, as far as I can see (he has no body color dilution based on the spot on his rump, and his barring is not opaline). In the second picture top right wing you can see some feathers with normal barring; it's hard to see but it looks spangle to me.

Thoughts?
As for yellowface I vs II, I take your point and think you are probably correct.

As for your seeing spangle, I trust your eye more than mine, though I don't see it.

My thoughts are inspired by something the OP of a related thread said--the thread being "Combination of Pieds." The OP said something to the effect that it was written somewhere that when pieds combine the pied areas increase. I remember seeing that too in various sources. Dark-eyed Clears are an excellent example. As you know they are the product of the union of Clearflight Pied -- which is the least pied of the pied mutations-- and Recessive Pied -- which has considerable pied pattern. The result? An all-pied bird that is either solid white or solid yellow.

So I'm thinking that in the current case the lack of pattern on this DF Dominant Pied is because he's a combination pied with either Clearflight or Recessive teaming up with DF Dominant.
 

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So I'm thinking that in the current case the the lack of pattern on this DF Dominant Pied is because he's a combination pied with either Clearflight or Recessive teaming up with DF Dominant.
I think that’s probably likely! I guess it’s impossible to say for sure at the moment but could be either. As he gets older the presence of a recessive allele could become apparent, if we’re lucky.
 
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