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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My pair has 3 young, a violet spangle, an albino and a lacewing.. the hen is a violet spangle, the **** is a grey dom pied. I understand the violet spangle, and I understand the albino(**** was split ino), my question is did the cinnamon of the lacewing come from the **** or could it be from the hen. Neither show any cinnamon so my quess is that it is from the ****. I have read that the ino gene and the cinnamon join to form the lacewing gene, why was one chick albino and the other lacewing... Also, now that I have lacewing, does that mean some of her offspring will be cinnamons as well as some will be lacewings or will the gene remain combined?
 

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The male must be split for both ino and cinnamon or the combination lacewing. Both cinnamon and ino are sexlinked genes. This means that a female can only show this gene she can't be split for it. A male on the other hand can show the mutation and or be split for it. I have actually been trying to breed lacewings for about six months and I just bred a pair that may produce lacewing if all goes well. If you search lacewing on the search box on this site you should come up with my questions/answers on the genetics of cinnamon, ino and lacewing. or just look at my posting history. It gets a bit confusing so I think the guides that Nev has laid out are great. Good luck
 

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I thought it would be nice to just fine the guide and paste it here. It has beed revised by Nev so you know it's correct

CINNAMON

normal male x cinnamon female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% normal females
SPLIT
100% the males split for cinnamon


cinnamon male x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% cinnamon females
SPLIT
100% the males split for cinnamon


male split for cinnamon x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
50% cinnamon females 50% normal females
SPLIT
50% split for cinnamon males

male split for cinnamon x cinnamon female
SHOWING
50% cinnamon males
50% normal males
50% cinnamon females
50% normal females
SPLIT
100% normal males split for cinnamon


INO

normal male x ino female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% normal females
SPLIT
100% the males split for ino

ino male x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% ino females
SPLIT
100% the males split for ino

male split for ino x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
50% ino females 50% normal females
SPLIT
50% split for ino males

male split for ino x ino female
SHOWING
50% ino males
50% normal males
50% ino females
50% normal females
SPLIT
100% the normal males split for ino

LACEWING

lacewing male x lacewing female
SHOWING
100% males
100% females
Split
100% Lacewing so none are split

lacewing male x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% lacewing females
SPLIT
100% the males split for lacewing

normal **** x lacewing female
SHOWING
100% normal males
100% normal females
SPLIT
100% males split for lacewing

lacewing male x ino female
SHOWING
100% ino males
100% Lacewing females
SPLIT
100% the males split for Lacewing

ino male x lacewing female
SHOWING
100% ino males
100% ino females
SPLIT
100% ino males

lacewing male x cinnamon female
SHOWING
100% cinnamon males
100% lacewing females
SPLIT
100% lacewing males

cinnamon males lacewing females
SHOWING
100% cinnamon males
100% cinnamon females
SPLIT
100% lacewing males

normal male split for lacewing x normal female
SHOWING
100% normal males
50% lacewing females
50% normal females
SPLIT
50% lacewing males

ino male split for lacewing x cinnamon females
SHOWING
50% normal males
50% cinnamon males
50% ino females
50%lacewing females
SPLIT
50% lacewing males
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks Bridget, I am surprised to see that if I breed a lacewing hen to a normal **** that none of the chicks will be lacewing... I'll understand someday... At least I have the start of lacewing breeding program...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The male must be split for both ino and cinnamon or the combination lacewing. Both cinnamon and ino are sexlinked genes. Good luck
I think Tony, the male, must be split for both Cinnamon and ino because one of the chicks is albino. If he was split for lacewing, would there be an albino?? It was a small clutch of 3, so maybe next time we will get a cinnamon chick.. :)
 

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to get an ino and a lacewing the male must have passed on an x chromosome with just an ino gene to one chick but and an x chromosome with an ino and a cinnamon gene to the other.

so he must be split for both ino and cinnamon. we can't tell from these results whether they are on the same x chromosome (ie he is split for lacewing) or if they are on different chromosome (he is split ino and cinnmon).

to get both these chicks there must have been a cross over of the x chromosomes so we can't tell without more chicks whether the genes crossed over onto the same chromosome or whether they crossed over to split up......

as crossovers between ino and cinnamon are not that common if the had more chicks we should be able to tell more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
so, if I have this right tonic, what you are saying is that he could be split 2 different ways,,, 1 in that he has ino on one x and cinnamon on the other and they crossed over to create the lacewing, or two in that he is split ino on one x and lacewing on the other x.
If the first case not too likely I would see many more lacewings from him, but the second he will have about as many lacewings as inos.. Please tell me I'm right and its starting to make sense.....
 

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Also, now that I have lacewing, does that mean some of her offspring will be cinnamons as well as some will be lacewings or will the gene remain combined?
If your lacewing is mated to a cinnamon all the chicks will be cinnamon.
If she is mated to an ino all the chicks will be ino.
In both cases all the young males will be split for lacewing

It is very easy to mistakenly identify a young lacewing as an albino. Look very closely at the albino chick because many lacewings show little or no markings until after the first moult. Also if other mutations are involved they could hide the lacewing markings. Usually the cheek patches will be the first indication if it is a lacewing.

This is a picture of one of my lacewings before & after her first moult
 

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so, if I have this right tonic, what you are saying is that he could be split 2 different ways,,, 1 in that he has ino on one x and cinnamon on the other and they crossed over to create the lacewing, or two in that he is split ino on one x and lacewing on the other x.
If the first case not too likely I would see many more lacewings from him, but the second he will have about as many lacewings as inos.. Please tell me I'm right and its starting to make sense.....
nearly.....:D

yes - there are two ways he could be split.
1 - ino on one and cinnamon on the other x chromosome. then a cross over is needed to get them both on the same chromosome and produce a lacewing hen chick.
2 - ino and cinnamon on one x chromosome, and neither on the other. if he had ino or cinnamon on the other he would be an ino or a cinnamon. so with this a cross over has to split the two up to produce an ino (assuming the ino is not a lightly marked lacewing as nev says).

the first one will produce mostly inos and cinnamons, but not many lacewings.
the second one would produce mostly lacewings with out many inos or cinnamons.
 

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Usually the cheek patches will be the first indication if it is a lacewing.

What is the colour of the cheek patches on a lacewing?
Nev, don't you have photo's of a "lutino" lacewing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
the cheek patches on mine are light violet, but what I also noticed early was the quill of two of the tail feathers (center quills)was visually darker then the rest.. Albino obviously has the pinkish centers and these stand right out. Also right now even with very short feathers she appears dirty compared to my albino...
 

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Here's a picture of a yellow lacewing before & after her first moult. Her markings darkened more in her second year
 
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