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You are giving the Baytril right into the mouth correct? If there is a bacterial infection you should see some improvement within several days.
 

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It's very hard to see his feet and legs in the video. When you look at him, to you see any swelling or redness on the bottom portion of his feet?
Any swelling in his legs?
Poor baby is obviously in bad shape! :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 · (Edited)
Shoot, I was hoping the video showed his feet better. But I really appreciate all your help. Every time I look at his feet, they seem fine. The feet don't seem swollen, they look the same as my other budgies' feet. Same for redness, I just don't see any. I took a screenshot from the video.


It's not the highest quality screenshot by any means, but the feet look fine. The nails could use a trim, which my regular vet does. Certainly not like he should be in pain, but something is clearly bothering him from how unbalanced he is. A relative mentioned he might have fallen in the cage and hurt himself, and on another forum where I've talked about this issue someone mentioned it could be an issue comparable to splayed legs or a problem with his hips. I can't be sure without talking to another vet, but it's something I'll ask about during the appointment.
 

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As you know the nails are too long and that can interfere with the ability to perch or stand properly, in the center of the bottom of the left foot I think I see a piece of what looks like maybe a piece of loose skin and the one rear toe looks a bit red, dark, but it could be just the lighting or shadow on it
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Thank you very much for your advice. I just got off the phone with the clinic. They were very understanding the more I explained and offered Napoleon an appointment tomorrow morning, which is a huge relief knowing he won't have to wait long to be examined.
 

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Thank goodness!! I’m so glad to hear this!
We’ll be looking forward to your updates after his appointment. 💜💜
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 · (Edited)
I think the appointment with our regular vet went well. He examined Napoleon in front of me. Before the vet took Napoleon out of the carrier, he noticed Napoleon was breathing hard. The vet listened to his chest, checked Napoleon's legs, weighed him, and took some samples for a fecal exam. I explained everything to the vet. I told him Napoleon had been 33 grams when he was weighed Oct. 4. The vet said Napoleon was 32 grams, but he wondered if that might be due to a difference in the scales being used. There were several poops on the paper towel I put in the bottom of the carrier, and when I told the vet Napoleon ate more than my other budgies, the vet said he believed Napoleon had to be eating and not playing with or picking at the food, because he said that a bird that wasn't eating wouldn't have pooped that many times in the short while Napoleon had been in the carrier.

He said that, if Napoleon were older, he'd be concerned about tumors, but with a younger bird infections were a more likely problem. He didn't think the wobbliness was neurological or due to a fall. The vet said he pinched Napoleon's toe while examining his feet and Napoleon immediately responded, which was a sign that the nerve there was functioning correctly. The vet said this all could be due to heavy metal toxicity, but he thought that was very unlikely in this case, or that it could be a congenital problem with the brain. The vet seemed mostly to think this was an infection. The vet said that Napoleon did seem to breathing hard when the vet listened to his chest. The vet mentioned the possibility of a viral, bacterial, or fungal infection. He thought an infection might be causing Napoleon to breathe harder. He said to try the Baytril, and if I didn't see any improvement by Tuesday, to call him. He said the clinic would call me later with the results of the fecal exam.

Today was kind of a failure to actually administer the Baytril. I was unsure about my ability to give the Baytril to Napoleon with the dropper in his beak, and even more afriad of the Baytril getting into his lungs, so I put the drop on a small piece of millet. He did eat most of the millet, but I could still see about one seed of the millet shining with Baytril. He immediately seemed to notice a difference and did not want to eat the millet with the Baytril. By the end, he was actively running from the millet, so I'm not happy about stressing him out anyway. I got him to relax a little with a piece of millet without Baytril afterwards, but I don't think it'll work to give him the Baytril on millet tomorrow. I'm still nervous, but I want the best chance of recovery for Napoleon, so I'll try to be calm and focused to give him the Baytril in his beak.

I emailed the vet to ask since I forgot to ask while I was there, but is it okay to continue the probiotic & vitamins while giving Baytril? I did tell the vet about the probiotic and vitamins early in the visit, and the vet said these were fine to give. However, when the vet much later said to give Baytril, I forgot to follow up by asking if I could continue the probiotic and vitamins with the Baytril.

All this while I've been wondering if Napoleon has been molting, whether his being unwell was caused by a particularly bad molt or whether his illness was itself causing a molt. Today I was watching him and he does seem to have some spiky feathers on his head.
 

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I'm glad you were able to get Napoleon in for a visit with your regular vet.
That vet seems to be more knowledgeable about budgies and explains the possibilities and reasoning in a more logical way.
I hope the Baytril does the trick for your little fellow.

Administering medication via oral syringe

I'm sure Cody will be by to give you hints on her method.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Thank you very much. Hopefully Baytril helps.

Yesterday was a very difficult day. Napoleon was just so weak and tail bobbing quite a bit. Thankfully he was still eating and even chirping. I live with my parents and they love the budgies so much. My father has owned birds before, so together we managed to give Napoleon the Baytril. Today Napoleon is still weak, but tail bobbing less.
 

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The method I use is as follows: I give the meds in the morning while it is still fairly dark and the birds have not yet begun to be active because the room is still dark and they are still covered. You have to have a nightlight or something so you can see a bit what you are doing, let your eyes adjust to the darkness of the room before beginning. Make sure you know where he is sitting in the cage , if there are other birds in the cage this may be a bit more difficult. Very slowly and quietly open the cage door reach in and gently cup your hands around him and remove him from the cage, do not grab with one hand if at all possible, this may be more difficult if the cage has only a small door, sit down and place him on a table or your knee, during all this time I find that it is best to use only the amount of restraint with your hands necessary to keep him from flying off, the more gentle you are the less he will fight and squirm around. Once you are sitting administer the meds into the mouth and return him immediately to the cage and keep the lights off and let him relax. This may work out better if he is comfortable sleeping in a cage by himself because when you put your hand in the cage to remove him you will not be spooking the other birds, once that happens you need to back off and try again later, the last thing you want is to try to catch him when all the birds are in a frenzy. My birds are not hand tame and I have used this method hundreds of times, make sure you have the meds ready in the syringe before you begin and stay calm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
It's hard to say how Napoleon is doing. We've given him the Baytril three times now: Friday, Saturday, and today. Friday he was the worst day of all. He was eating from his food bowls, but a bit less than usual, and when I offered him millet he showed no interest in it. Saturday and today he's been eating more normally. Saturday he seemed much better, far from normal but better than Friday. He was sleeping a lot, but more energetic and more interested in everything around him. Saturday he was interested in millet and ate for a while. He even tried to climb on my hand like he used to while eating millet, but he quickly lost his balance. Today he was better than Friday, but less energetic than Saturday. I keep going back and forth. On the one hand, he's only had Baytril three times, it might not be showing the effect yet, and to the extent it might be having an effect, Napoleon is better Saturday and today than he was on Friday. On the other hand, the vet told me to call the clinic if Napoleon wasn't better by Tuesday, and while it's not Tuesday yet, Napoleon is far from his usual healthy, active, playful self. My other budgies haven't been sick before (thank goodness), so I'm not sure: should I give the Baytril more time to show if it's being effective?

On a related note, I haven't been able to find a flat perch, so I bought a thick perch from a local pet store and my father sawed part of the top of the perch off and sanded it down. The perch looks really nice, with the top of the perch being half flat and half rounded. Unfortunately Napoleon was spooked when I put it in the cage. I didn't want to make him stressed, but I genuinely think this perch should be more comfortable for him. I'm hoping the stress of seeing something new in the cage won't make his condition worse.
 

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I think the Baytril needs more time to show if it is going to make a difference, it is a broad spectrum antibiotic very commonly used in birds. Did the vet call you yet with the results of the fecal exam? If there is no improvement by Tuesday even though the vet thinks the metal toxicity is a long shot I would ask about testing for it. If the vet thinks the test would be too stressful ask about treating for it.
 

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Do you have Amazon Prime?

Flat Bird Perch

Wooden Platform Perches

Put anything new outside the cage where Napoleon can see it for a couple of days.
Then, hang it on the outside of the cage for a couple of days.
After that, try putting it inside the cage.

Generally, if a budgie has a bit of time to become accustomed to something new before it is introduced into the cage, then he will feel better about it being safe when it does come in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the advice and insight.

No, I don't have Amazon Prime. I had checked on Amazon, and I almost bought some of those, but I guess with things like perches that I know they'll be chewing, I like to see it in person to feel more sure it's safe.

Yeah, I messed up putting the perch so soon in the cage. Napoleon has calmed down, and I can even see him occasionally looking curiously at the perch, but he was really nervous for a while.

No, the vet hasn't called back with the results. If they don't call tomorrow, I'll call to see. I tried calling Friday but nothing. I'll talk to the vet about heavy metal toxicity. With waiting for Tuesday, should I call Tuesday morning, or wait until a bit later Tuesday to see how he's acting before and after Tuesday's Baytril dose? I don't want to wait too long to call but I do want to give the medicine enough time.
 

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I would call early morning in Tuesday, you never know how long it will take for someone to get back to you. Metal toxicity is usually treated with injections of calcium EDTA but there may be an oral treatment as well. From what I know with the injections the response is usually pretty quick.
 

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I would give the medicine for the instructed duration and call in to your vet daily to give them an update as to how he is.
If it’s a good vet, they will very much care.
 
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