Lethargic and stumbling, but eating well and preening
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The vet indeed recommended another visit. I scheduled it for tomorrow afternoon. Thank you very much for the advice, I'll be sure to mention it. The vet has wondered about heavy metal toxicity before, too. I just wonder why Napoleon seemed to improve so much after the doxy injections if it was metal toxicosis. He was doing very badly at the end of October with so much weakness and difficulty moving at all, and now he's still not 100%, but he is more energetic. So it does seem like the three doxy injections did something. Though maybe it could have been both an infection and toxicosis?
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Here is a good article on metal toxicosis it describes several methods of treatment, Diagnosing and Treating Heavy Metal Toxicosis in Birds
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Thank you very much! I see it says that antibiotics are used on a case by case basis, mostly to rule out secondary infection. So, if toxicosis is involved, I guess it would have been toxicosis in addition to an infection causing Napoleon's symptoms?
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It's possible, I hate to think that he might have some toxicosis that could be successfully treated and treatment is not being given for lack of testing. Sometimes if testing is too stressful treatments can be given based on suspected issues providing the treatments would do no harm if given.
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A small update on Napoleon: The vet visit went pretty well. The vet listened to Napoleon's chest and said he didn't hear any congestion. Only that Napoleon was breathing rapidly, which again the vet thought could be due to stress. Napoleon's grip hasn't necessarily improved, but he also hasn't weakened. The weight was the same at 32 grams. His right foot is a bit weaker than the left, but that's likely due to the bite. The vet suggested choanal cultures. The vet said we could do another doxy injection. The vet wasn't sure if another injection was necessary given that Napoleon seemed to be improving on his own, but also didn't think that another injection would do any harm either. We decided on the cultures and the injection. After the vet visit Napoleon was fairly lethargic and sleepy that day, but the next day he was lively and energetic, so I'm guessing it was only the stress from the vet visit. That was last week.
Napoleon still has balance issues, but he's chirping often and head bobbing to the toys in the cage. The last couple days Napoleon has been a bit less energetic, though not drastically so. Today the vet called with the results of the cultures. The lab found a staph infection. The vet asked to a sensitivity test and the lab said that the staph infection was susceptible to the doxycycline. For now the vet's advice is to continue to monitor Napoleon. The vet doesn't think any more injections should be necessary, but he says to contact the clinic should we notice Napoleon getting worse.
Does anyone have any experience with staphylococcal infections? I've been reading online but I guess I'd appreciate any insight and advice. And of course thank you to everyone in the thread for all the insight and advice throughout this entire situation!
Napoleon still has balance issues, but he's chirping often and head bobbing to the toys in the cage. The last couple days Napoleon has been a bit less energetic, though not drastically so. Today the vet called with the results of the cultures. The lab found a staph infection. The vet asked to a sensitivity test and the lab said that the staph infection was susceptible to the doxycycline. For now the vet's advice is to continue to monitor Napoleon. The vet doesn't think any more injections should be necessary, but he says to contact the clinic should we notice Napoleon getting worse.
Does anyone have any experience with staphylococcal infections? I've been reading online but I guess I'd appreciate any insight and advice. And of course thank you to everyone in the thread for all the insight and advice throughout this entire situation!
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Thank you very much for your advice. Up to now, Napoleon has had a total of 4 injections.
A problem came up just now. I noticed Napoleon spending more time at the bottom of the cage yesterday, and today I noticed his foot, the one that was bitten weeks ago, looks like this. The smaller of the two toes doesn't seem to have any nail and there's some red (dried?) blood. I've emailed the vet with the photos but I'd appreciate any advice for how I can help Napoleon.
ETA:
I just spoke to the vet. The vet said to separate Napoleon until it heals and monitor him. He also recommended Medicam.
A problem came up just now. I noticed Napoleon spending more time at the bottom of the cage yesterday, and today I noticed his foot, the one that was bitten weeks ago, looks like this. The smaller of the two toes doesn't seem to have any nail and there's some red (dried?) blood. I've emailed the vet with the photos but I'd appreciate any advice for how I can help Napoleon.
ETA:
I just spoke to the vet. The vet said to separate Napoleon until it heals and monitor him. He also recommended Medicam.
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No, I'm sorry, I didn't explain well. There was a bite that happened weeks ago. But the nail was fine then. That has since healed. I never saw him picking at it.
Today I noticed he was practically missing a nail, on the same foot where the previous injury happened.
Today I noticed he was practically missing a nail, on the same foot where the previous injury happened.
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You and I are in almost the same situation. I got home from the office to find one of my guys has some issue with his left foot/leg and will not put any weight on it, he was fine this morning. I called the vet and I am giving him .01ml of Metacam for now, and keeping him separate and quiet, if it does not help he will have to go in, he was just there yesterday for a beak trim!
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All the best to your little one! Hopefully he'll make a full recovery!
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Hello everyone! A quick update. Napoleon has been improving, slow but steady. He's a still a bit wobbly, but his movement has improved dramatically. He can reach the highest swings in the cage, and can even preen and nap while balancing on the swing, when before he lost his balance preening on a regular, lower perch. He's more active, he never sleeps at the bottom of the cage anymore, he explores the rest of the cage top to bottom and can balance on most perches, and he's chirping more. He's set to go for another check up next Monday, just to make sure everything is okay.
A separate problem has come up, however. While Napoleon had been sick in October and November, one of the female budgies had begun laying eggs. I replaced the eggs she laid with dummy eggs as instructed by my vet. This hen was usually a bit bossy to the other budgies, but she was never really aggressive. In fact when Napoleon was well she would accept food from him and he would chirp to her. Starting November and December, she started to get aggressive with Napoleon. She would stare him down and peck at him. It was really strange, because ever since I bought Napoleon back in February 2021, she was never aggressive to him at all until about November. I'm thinking the change was caused in part by her laying eggs and being more hormonal, as well as the natural instinct to drive away sick members of the flock.
My first thought was to separate them, so I put her in the hospital cage. During this time she seemed to lose interest in the eggs, so I removed the eggs from the cage. I kept her separated for about two weeks, then decided to try to have them in the same cage again. The first week back, at first, went really well. She didn't pay much attention to Napoleon, but she also wasn't bothering him. All four budgies seemed to be living together again in relative harmony. By the end of the first week back, she was spending more time at the bottom of the cage ripping up the paper, which made me worried she was going to start laying eggs again. During the second week back, she would occasionally make Napoleon move from perches and peck at him. At this point, Napoleon was a bit stronger and he would peck back, so initially she would retreat. But this Sunday she laid an egg, Tuesday she laid another egg, and today she was again preventing Napoleon from approaching the food bowls and staring him down again. I didn't want to wait for it to get worse, so at least for now, I've separated her again.
I know sometimes two budgies just don't get along and need to be housed separately. If that becomes necessary, that's what I'll do. But part of me would like to keep my four budgies together. The three older ones all clearly have some affection for each other. Napoleon is the youngest and does well with the other two budgies. And when this specific female budgie isn't laying eggs, she usually at worst ignores Napoleon or actively seeks him out as a mate. Napoleon for his part used to chirp and head bob to her when he was well. Since she started being aggressive, he's become fearful of her, so now he just tries to avoid her. Like I said, before Napoleon became sick and before she started laying eggs (both things happened in October and November), she was never aggressive to him at all. I've tried reducing the daylight hours and rotating the perches in the cage to discourage egg laying, but that hasn't seemed to have discouraged her. I do plan to talk to the vet about this when it's time for Napoleon's visit. I'd really appreciate any advice on how to handle this situation. Thank you very much for all the advice already in this thread.
A separate problem has come up, however. While Napoleon had been sick in October and November, one of the female budgies had begun laying eggs. I replaced the eggs she laid with dummy eggs as instructed by my vet. This hen was usually a bit bossy to the other budgies, but she was never really aggressive. In fact when Napoleon was well she would accept food from him and he would chirp to her. Starting November and December, she started to get aggressive with Napoleon. She would stare him down and peck at him. It was really strange, because ever since I bought Napoleon back in February 2021, she was never aggressive to him at all until about November. I'm thinking the change was caused in part by her laying eggs and being more hormonal, as well as the natural instinct to drive away sick members of the flock.
My first thought was to separate them, so I put her in the hospital cage. During this time she seemed to lose interest in the eggs, so I removed the eggs from the cage. I kept her separated for about two weeks, then decided to try to have them in the same cage again. The first week back, at first, went really well. She didn't pay much attention to Napoleon, but she also wasn't bothering him. All four budgies seemed to be living together again in relative harmony. By the end of the first week back, she was spending more time at the bottom of the cage ripping up the paper, which made me worried she was going to start laying eggs again. During the second week back, she would occasionally make Napoleon move from perches and peck at him. At this point, Napoleon was a bit stronger and he would peck back, so initially she would retreat. But this Sunday she laid an egg, Tuesday she laid another egg, and today she was again preventing Napoleon from approaching the food bowls and staring him down again. I didn't want to wait for it to get worse, so at least for now, I've separated her again.
I know sometimes two budgies just don't get along and need to be housed separately. If that becomes necessary, that's what I'll do. But part of me would like to keep my four budgies together. The three older ones all clearly have some affection for each other. Napoleon is the youngest and does well with the other two budgies. And when this specific female budgie isn't laying eggs, she usually at worst ignores Napoleon or actively seeks him out as a mate. Napoleon for his part used to chirp and head bob to her when he was well. Since she started being aggressive, he's become fearful of her, so now he just tries to avoid her. Like I said, before Napoleon became sick and before she started laying eggs (both things happened in October and November), she was never aggressive to him at all. I've tried reducing the daylight hours and rotating the perches in the cage to discourage egg laying, but that hasn't seemed to have discouraged her. I do plan to talk to the vet about this when it's time for Napoleon's visit. I'd really appreciate any advice on how to handle this situation. Thank you very much for all the advice already in this thread.
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Good to hear Napoleon is doing well. It does sound like your hen is being nasty due to her hormone levels, this is also putting stress on Napoleon. How much light do the birds get on a daily basis? You can try reducing it to only 8 hours of daylight a day but that would mean that all would be subject to that if you keep them together. I have a hen that is a chronic egg layer, I tried everything including hormone shots, nothing stopped her and finally after she prolapsed, it ended up that I had to remove her from the flock. She now lives with one other female away from all the other birds, out of sight and out of hearing them and so far she has been ok. You might end up having to keep her in a separate cage if you can't stop the egg laying. The vet may want to have a look at her, I would call and see if you can bring her in when you take Napoleon.
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Thank you very much for your insight! How has your budgie that got injured been?
I probably should reduce daylight hours to 8. They were initially getting 12 hours, which I reduced to 10. I should take her to the vet as well.
In addition to that, I've heard that there are different kinds of paper to put at the bottom of the cage? I'm currently using paper towels and the hen since September and October has started ripping up the paper towels. I think she sees the paper towels as a nest. Napoleon also sometimes walks on the bottom of the cage looking for pieces of food that dropped from the food bowls. I think that's contributing to the problem, both making her more hormonal and possibly making her see Napoleon as a threat. But I'm not sure what kind of paper I should buy to put at the bottom of the cage.
I probably should reduce daylight hours to 8. They were initially getting 12 hours, which I reduced to 10. I should take her to the vet as well.
In addition to that, I've heard that there are different kinds of paper to put at the bottom of the cage? I'm currently using paper towels and the hen since September and October has started ripping up the paper towels. I think she sees the paper towels as a nest. Napoleon also sometimes walks on the bottom of the cage looking for pieces of food that dropped from the food bowls. I think that's contributing to the problem, both making her more hormonal and possibly making her see Napoleon as a threat. But I'm not sure what kind of paper I should buy to put at the bottom of the cage.
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It does not really matter what paper you put at the bottom, when a hen is broody she will rip up anything. If you take her to the vet the vet will probably confirm that she is hormonal, but you already know that, and perhaps talk about a Lupron injection to calm the hormones. It may be a bit too soon in the big picture for the injection, try more of the daylight reduction first.
Thanks for asking, my guy that appeared to have the injured leg turns out to have arthritis and a probable heart condition. I did end up taking him back to the vet. He goes in every 2 weeks for a beak trim because of a liver issue it grows like crazy, and the vet and I noticed that he seems to be getting more and more easily stressed based on his rate of respiration and I have noticed at home his breathing is sometimes to rapid and he does not have any respiratory infection. He is still on the Metacam and now a heart medication and is better, at least from a visible assessment, he's 8 years old so for a budgie he is an older bird.
Thanks for asking, my guy that appeared to have the injured leg turns out to have arthritis and a probable heart condition. I did end up taking him back to the vet. He goes in every 2 weeks for a beak trim because of a liver issue it grows like crazy, and the vet and I noticed that he seems to be getting more and more easily stressed based on his rate of respiration and I have noticed at home his breathing is sometimes to rapid and he does not have any respiratory infection. He is still on the Metacam and now a heart medication and is better, at least from a visible assessment, he's 8 years old so for a budgie he is an older bird.
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