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Discussion Starter · #141 ·
Thank you, I'll try to see how she does with less daylight.

I'm glad your little guy is doing better. He seems to have a number of issues, which makes sense as an older bird, but it's great that you're giving him the best care.

Napoleon did well at the vet today. He's up to 34 grams, and the vet said his breathing was better than at any previous appointment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 · (Edited)
Thank you very much, and sorry for taking so long to reply! It's been a busy couple of weeks.

Today there's been a new issue. Napoleon is still doing well, but Isabel, the budgie who has been laying eggs, is not well. When I uncovered her cage this morning, I saw she had laid a new egg (for a total of 7 now). There is something red hanging out of the cloaca. From what I've read this could be a prolapse? I know how serious this is and that it is urgent to get her to a vet as soon as possible. I called my avian vet immediately, but the clinic didn't have any appointments for today. The soonest would be an appointment for tomorrow morning and so I asked for that appointment. The other option is to go to an emergency clinic right now, but the emergency clinics around me have very few avian vets, and those few are usually completely booked. I've brought other parakeets to the emergency clinics near where I live in the past, and I've never been able to talk to an avian vet there.

I'm hoping that a visit first thing tomorrow morning isn't too long a wait. Apart from the red mass hanging from the cloaca, Isabel is acting normally. She's eating normally, she moves around the cage normally. She seems alert and not lethargic. She does spend most of her time laying on her eggs, but she's been doing that ever since she started laying eggs. On previous days I'd see her occasionally take a break from laying on the eggs to play with one of her toys, but I haven't seen her do so today.

I also notice Isabel has a bit of a spot in her chest, but I'm not sure what that could be.

Thank you again to everyone here for all the advice given during these months. This is the first time I've seen this situation with my female budgies, so I would really appreciate any insight or advice.
 

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You need to get Isabel into the Avian Vet.
In the meantime, keep her in a small hospital cage and keep her warm.
Don't let her out to fly around.
If you can get in to your Avian Vet tomorrow morning, that would probably be best rather than the Emergency Vet since you have no way of knowing what their experience level is in dealing with small birds.

Did you ask your Avian Vet clinic if there is anyway at all they can work Isabel in as an emergency appointment today?
 

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Discussion Starter · #145 ·
Thank you very much! Isabel is currently in the hospital cage. I'll be taking her to the vet early tomorrow. I did try again and again to explain that it was urgent and Isabel needed help as soon as possible, but the secretary said that in cases like this they would refer people to the emergency clinic. I asked if the secretary knew any clinics experienced with birds, because the emergency clinics I had visited in the past had never given me an appointment with an avian vet, but she couldn't say. She could only give me a recommendation based on my location. I know the clinic she mentioned and I've been there before. Like I said, I've never been able to talk to the one avian vet they have on staff, and I told the secretary at my usual clinic this. But she said it just wasn't possible to make an appointment today.
 

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I do think she'll be fine until tomorrow morning. Keep her as quiet as possible.
Please let us know what you find out when you take her to the Avian Vet tomorrow.

Sending lots of love and healing energy for sweet little Isabel.
 

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It is very important that the prolapsed tissue does not dry out. I had this happen to one of my birds last summer, if you can get this product at a pharmacy or something similar you can put it on the exposed tissue. If you cannot get it call the vet and ask them what you can put on the tissue until they see her, if it dries out that is not good.

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Is she a chroinc egg layer or is this the first time she has laid eggs? The stress of laying the eggs is what has caused the prolapse and made the inner tissue weak. The vet will reinsert the tissue and may want to hospitalize her for a couple of days to see if the tissue stays in . With my bird the tissue popped out a second time so the vet had to stitch it back in. When she came home she was on 4 different meds along with hormone injections to calm things down. She now lives with another feamle, she had to be separated from the rest of the flock because it was too stimulating for her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #150 ·
Thank you very much. For most of her life, she hasn't been a chronic egg layer. I bought her June 2018. It was about September 15, 2021 that she began laying eggs for the first time. She laid about three eggs late September, then stopped a good month or so. Since then, she'd lay eggs for a while, stop for a while, lay eggs for a while. The most recent egg laying started early January. She laid three eggs while still being housed with my other three budgies. She's been separated from my other three budgies for a couple weeks now due to issues with aggression, but since being separated she was still broody, chewing the paper at the bottom of the cage, and ultimately has laid four more eggs for a total of seven.

Thank you for the insight. Hopefully all goes well at the vet tomorrow. I called the vet and asked if I should apply anything to prevent it from drying out. The secretary spoke to one of the vets and said to either put her in a room with a humidifier or in the bathroom with the hot water running to make a more humid environment, and to keep the area where she is very clean, but the vet didn't recommend applying anything at this time.

On a positive note, since I started posting today, I've seen her playing with her toys a couple times. I hope it's a good sign that she's acting more or less completely normal and has the energy and desire to play.
 

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When this happened to my girl she was flying around like nothing was wrong, she flew by me and out of the corner of my eye I thought I saw something red, so I got hold of her and sure enough, tissue about the size of a pea had popped out. :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter · #154 · (Edited)
Hi everyone. So, at least for now, it seems like the situation has been resolved.

I took Isabel to the vet yesterday. He initially wanted to reinsert the tissue and put two stitches to keep it in place, but after examining Isabel, he noticed she had an egg she hadn't finished laying, which was a big additional complication. He said it was important for her first to lay the egg, and then they could reinsert the tissue. The vet planned to start by giving her an injection of Metacam to deal with any inflammation and Oxytocin to see if Isabel might lay the egg sooner. The vet asked me to leave Isabel at the clinic for the day and pick her up before they closed. When I picked her up, she still hadn't laid the egg. The vet said to call first thing in the morning to let him know if she had laid the egg. On the car ride home, I heard her chirping or whimpering, and a large red mass came out of her as if she was trying to lay the egg then, but that red mass for the most part went back inside, except for the small lump. When I got her home, though, she seemed relatively normal. The red lump was still outside, but it wasn't any more protruded. During the afternoon and evening she was eating, preening, and perching normally.

Today in the morning she still hadn't laid the egg, so I called the clinic and updated them on the situation. The vet said to bring Isabel to the clinic immediately. The staff asked me to leave her at the clinic and that they would call me later after the vet examined her. Several hours later, the vet called. He said that they had waited in case Isabel might relax and lay the egg, but that didn't seem to be happening. So the vet first attempted to gently massage the egg out, but that made Isabel more stressed and he noticed the egg was going further in. He said they sedated Isabel, and then were able to collapse the egg and extract it. Once the egg was out, the tissue went back in by itself. The vet said there hadn't been any need to use stitches. Since she's been laying so many eggs, the vet had been worried that she might try to lay an egg while the stitches were in place and before it was time to remove the stitches, which would prevent the egg from being able to pass. So it seems positive that there wasn't any need to do so. The vet said that Isabel was doing well after the procedure, perching normally and somewhat relaxed.

The vet said it was hard to be sure about the size of the egg because they had to collapse it, but he seems to suspect that it was an unusually large egg that has possibly pushed out the red lump and Isabel was having trouble laying it.

The vet asked to keep her at the clinic just to make sure everything is okay until later in the afternoon. He did recommend Metacam for a couple days, but since Isabel has always been the most skittish of all my parakeets, and considering that she might be more fragile after all this, I'm not sure I'd be able to administer it. I know for certain she would resist, because when I need to move or transport her, she'll throw herself against the walls of the cage to avoid me and generally panics. The vet said they could give her Metacam by injection, though it would only be in her system for about 24 hours. He doesn't think there would be too much of a negative consequence of not administering the Metacam for more days.

So that's the situation so far. I'll be picking up Isabel later today. Again, I'd really appreciate any insight or advice. It seems like the situation has resolved in one of the better possible scenarios. They were able to extract the egg without any problems and they didn't need to do a more aggressive procedure. I don't think we're out of the woods yet, given that Isabel might try to lay another egg and the prolapse might repeat, but for now at least, things seem under control and Isabel seems to be doing well.
 

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Yikes, that turned out to be pretty involved. When an egg is stuck like that it can sometimes prevent the droppings from being passed and that is another whole issue, so glad the vet was able to collapse the egg and remove it, had it burst inside of her that would have been really bad. I would ask the vet about giving Isabel a Lupron injection to calm the hormones and stop the egg laying. Since she was basically egg bound talk to the vet about it happening again and what actions you should take. I would think that after what she has just been through the inner tissues are fairly weak and if she continues to produce eggs she may prolapse again as you have indicated. The Metacam will act as an anti inflammatory and a pain killer, that is one of the things my hen was on when she came home after her prolapse. Ask the vet about calcium supplementation, I was giving that also but you can get calcium supplements that do not have to be given directly into the mouth. I would keep her separate from the others when you get her home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #156 · (Edited)
Thank you very much.

Thank goodness throughout all of this Isabel had been pooping, larger and more infrequent poops, but at least that wasn't an issue. I did ask the vet about Lupron during our first consultation yesterday, but he said their clinic had tried in the past to get Lupron and hadn't been able to get it. He did say he knew where I could go if it were necessary to do. I'll ask about what steps to take, the Lupron, and the calcium supplements. In the meantime, I do have a vitamin powder from Lafeber I had bought months ago. That has calcium and I could add that to her food, especially since she's being housed separately.

It's unusual, though, I always thought Isabel got plenty of calcium through with the Roudybush pellets and the vegetables. But she may have needed more with all the eggs she's been laying. It doesn't seem like she was egg bound in the traditional sense. She laid one egg Tuesday, so it had been only a bit over 48 hours, but it is true that she was having much more difficulty than usual passing this most recent egg. I'll talk to the vet about that.
 

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When they are laying a lot of eggs the calcium gets depleted quickly and I don't think just the calcium in the food is enough, it may require a separate calcium supplement. When they get into a egg laying cycle it is usual to see an egg every other day. Have you ever seen or read about egg formation, it's pretty interesting, if you are interested I'll see if I can find the info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 ·
Thank you, definitely, I'd appreciate any information. I wasn't able to talk to the vet as the clinic was very busy when I arrived, but I did talk with one of secretaries. She agreed with the calcium supplements. At the time I mentioned the Lafeber vitamins, but now that I'm home, I realize the Lafeber vitamin powder doesn't specifically list calcium. Isabel does have a calcium block in her cage right now, hopefully she'll eat if she needs it while I look for another supplement I could give him. I asked the secretary about Lupron. The vet mentioned yesterday that the clinic had difficulty getting Lupron, and the secretary confirmed that the clinic had spent a year trying to get Lupron and weren't able to. She did mention two other clinics in my area that might have Lupron. For now, she suggested to monitor Isabel and let her rest up after these stressful past two days.
 

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You might find it useful to finely grate some of the calcium block almost to a powder and sprinkle it in the food in hopes that she will ingest some of it when she eats. Ask the vet if you can use one of the products in this link if they cannot provide you with a product. Calcium Supplements
When my hen came home she was on a liquid supplement called calcium glubionate directly into the mouth, eventually she was taken of of that and the vet gave me a powder called Osteoform that gets sprinkled on the food.
 
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