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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Whats wrong with Cutie?

Hi all,

Cutie has been to the vets this Monday on 4th feb since she was sleeping and dropping were sticking to her vent (actually her feathers) more than usual she has also suffered from mega bacteria in the past so she was already on sodium benzoate before the vet visit.

The vet noticed her tail bobbing and gave us synulox palatable drops because he suspected respiratory infection. The vet also gave BSP drops but since she was on sodium benzoate he said wait till it is over and then give her BSP drops because it also has to be given in water.

However cutie is still fluffed up and I want to know why - today is her last day for synulox drops and yet she is fluffed up. Could it be megabacteria however she does not have pellets in her poop. Could it be some other secondary infection if so would'nt it also be targeted with synulox drops?

p.s. Cutie is also moulting since 12th jan however she never slept so much during moulting before could it just be a mixture of everything since we went on holiday and left her to a lady to take care of her causing her stress (she vomitted the very next day we got her I know megabac could be stress induced so started sodium benzoate.)

Thank you
 

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Sorry Cutie is not well. Moulting can surely take a toll on the immune system and make the bird more lethargic and susceptible to illness. Did the vet do any tests on the droppings? If not I would request that a test is done to determine if there are any of the mega bacteria organisms in the droppings as well as checking for a secondary infection. You do not always see whole seeds in the droppings of a bird with mega bacteria. If there is an active infection of the mega bacteria an antibiotic will not help as it is really not a bacteria but a yeast and the sodium benzoate may not be enough to knock out the infection. If there is a secondary infection it could also be that a different antibiotic needs to be used. I would take Cutie back to the vet for further analysis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
blob of poop stuck to inflammed cuties's vent

Hello,

we had been on holiday and had to keep cutie with a friend when i got her today a lot of poop were stuck to the vent. it was very large and combined and in a blob and it was black but when i am trying to clean it it appears as dark green i tried searching for vets but my avian vet has gone on a two week holiday and there is no appointment with other avian vet nearby till tomorrow afternoon however i am worried as to what I should do to cutie in the meanwhile also i had given the friend oyster shells and when i got cutie back today there was half of the oyster bottle in her bowl and she also vomited today and there were vomit in her cage as well. As soon as i gave her something to eat like seeds just so that she eats something she vomited and she has suffered from mega bacteria previously . Her vet is inflamed and not opening and she making begging noises but no poop is coming.
do you think feeding her spinach would help???

please help immediately.
 

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You need to see the vet asap, according to your previous posts your bird has been ill for some time. It is possible that the blob you are referring to is blocking her ability to pass anything more. Can you clean off the vent area with water and a soft towel? Is she on any medication currently?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
hi,

i had taken her to vet last time but she has never had this sort of problem in the past the vet only gave us a BSP vitamins drops and synulox medicine to treat her respiratory. I have tried calling everywhere there is no avian vet around until tomorrow.Cutie pooped twice though they were extremely wet and fluid and only hint of green,black and white was seen.I cleaned her vent and she pooped in a few hours instead of immediately also I tried feeling around her vent I can feel spikes sort of thing dotted around her vent and is inflamed also her usually pink vent is blueish right now. She is on the bsp drops and she had finished her 6 days synulox drops.
 

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I am sorry about your bird's condition but this is something that cannot be solved without the intervention of a vet. Does your bird currently have megabacteria, if so that is probably contributing to her problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cutie finally did some poops over the day starting from the green watery one.These are the type of poops cutie did gradually over the day. They are quite black I dont know what it could mean (could it mean internal bleeding especially the last one) and atm she is putting her head behind and sleeping.
 

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The first dropping, as you are aware does not look good, as for the other two, they are dark but only you can say just how much darker than normal they are. In a bird that has bleeding in the upper GI tract you can see black tar like droppings but I don't know if that is the case here. It is critical that the bird gets examined by an avian vet so please take her to the vet that can see you tomorrow afternoon. Perhaps if you call them and explain the issue they can squeeze you in sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hi,
I took Cutie to vet yesterday, and showed Cutie's poops to her, and the vet said that the poop maybe has blood in it, and she said that we should a poop test, to find out what is causing this illness. She said it could be parasites or tumour or there is something wrong with the liver but not very sure until we do the poop test.

Therefore, the vet asked us to collect her poops for 3 days, and then they will culture it. I am not sure now cause the vet said that the results will maybe take a week to arrive, and so tomorrow I will take the final sample for the third day and submit the poops. the vet said Cutie may deteriorate within that time as birds deteriorate very fast. I asked her what I can do in the meantime but she just asked me to continue with Cutie's vitamin A drops in water that the vet that I went to last time prescribed. I am also not very sure whether I should trust this vet as she suggested me to remove her natural branch perches and replace with sanded perches. I told her that I thought sand perches caused bumblefoot but she told me no it doesn't instead those natural branches may cause bumblefoot, as mites can grow on them.

She also asked me to give Cutie grit, but I told her that I thought that grit is not necessary for budgies, but the vet said no it is very good for their digestion, I am not very sure about this vet now, but I have still agreed to do the poop test, cause Cutie needs help fast, btw this vet is an exotics vet. I also told the vet how Cutie stays on the window during the day and licks the rubber on the window even after I try pulling her away from it, Cutie goes and sticks pellets to the rubber on the window and keeps licks it whilst sticking pellets, the vet said that is very toxic and also something that may have been causing her to become ill over the time, and it is only now that Cutie is showing signs.

So I wanted to ask what I can give to Cutie in the meantime, as I give her vitamin drops in the water so I cant give her acv or sodium benzoate. I have heard about electrolytes and probiotics but I have never used them before and I dont know which ones to use in my case so please tell me whether anything like that would help Cutie in the meantime, or any other things that I should be doing? I am very scared I don't want anything to happen to my baby Cutie she is a pure miracle the way she came in my life, so please help me. I am also thinking of buying harrisons baby food and try feeding her if such an extreme situation occurs where she becomes weak, but I don't know how I should do that and also how can I check whether her crop is full or not? Cutie is 4years of age btw, she is not a budgie baby but she is my baby:laughing2:.

I have also attached the Cutie's poop that the vet thought may have blood in it, but I have also told the vet that yesterday Cutie had carrot juice, but still if someone can confirm if that looks like blood or is it just due to carrot juice?
 

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If you have doubts about the current vet I suggest you look for another. An exotic vet usually has experience with birds but you never know how extensive the experience is. Can you locate an avian vet in your area?
 

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You’re right, the exotics vet you saw doesn’t sound completely knowledgeable about birds. Budgies (and any parrot type bird) do NOT need grit for digestion! In fact, it can do more harm than good. I’d let them run the diagnostics on the fecal sample though. I know you really want answers, but we can’t accurately determine anything from pics. Sometimes there can still be blood cells, but they can not be seen with our eyes, unless there is a lot. If your vet is asking for a sample, there needs to be much more than that. Try for 1/2 teaspoon at least. Best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi,

This post is continuation of previous one where I said my budgie was sick an had pasting of the vent before that we took her to the vet in feb because she was fluffed up and sitting idle all day.

In feb when we took her to the vet she was prescribed synulox drops for 6 days because the vet suggested it could be respiratory although I did not hear any wheezing before, staining or any other symptoms of respiratory except for tail bobbing however thinking that maybe the vet saw something that we would have missed we carried to the treatment with synulox and vitamin drops in water.

After the treatment that I noticed that my budgie was visibly getting more clogged nose and instead of her usual dry sneeze they were watery. There was also more tail bobbing and whenever she took a flight she would have loud wheezing noises but there is no staining. During this time she had the pasting of her vent and after that she had red poop as well and when she wakes up the poops are of disproportionately large size. She also has times when she poops more than one poop. All this I noticed after the treatment.We took her back again in case if it was a fungal or anything else. The vet suggested poop test however since we weren't expecting it, he took the sample right then however the bad poops were dry by that time as she usually fluctuates between the bad and good poops so he sampled a good poop and for the respiratory he said we should do a sample for that so I was asked when cutie sneeze I use a stick with cotton on the end to sample it and put it in a test tube with charcoal.

Now when the results come back I am informed that nothing came up in the poop test ( I knew that the poop he sampled would not reveal anything and also another vet had suggested that we collect poop samples for 3 days and send it to the lab for analysis however he took only one poop for sampling) for the respiratory there is a small population of bacteria growing however it is not significant. the tests were way above £200 and now I don't know how will insurance cover it since the tests don't seems to show much. I know definitely cutie is sick just today she was fluffed up and sleeping and throwing off pellets please suggest to me what to do I don't want to find out on the last stage.

As anyone had experience with synulox for respiratory since I know usually baytril is used. Should I ignore the pasting of the vent could it be a side effect but it happened after the med and it keeps happening not as worst as the first time but poops do get stuck. And what about the red poops she did them a few days but nothing for few weeks now. We also tried taking all red things from diet out then no red poops were there in that day. she had also vomited when the vet handled her and in car journey could it be mega bacteria and hence the red poops???

Thank you for taking the time to help it means a lot especially when vets dont seem to help in improving my budgie's health.
 

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Sorry your bird is still ill, this has been going on way too long without a proper diagnosis. Where are you located, perhaps if there are other members in your area that have a good experience with an avian vet they would share that information. As far as I know Megabacteria does not cause red droppings but you can see whole seeds being passed in the droppings of a bird with Megabacteria. Colored droppings can be caused by what the bird is eating. If your bird has Megabacteria an antibiotic will not help as the organism is not really a bacteria so treatment is with an entirely different type of drug, but sometimes there is a secondary infection and an antibiotic is needed for that.
 

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Sound's like the pasting has gotten better, and the red dropping's have not been present for some time so I would be more concerned with an answer on the respiratory symptoms you're seeing. Was the swab sample just for bacterial or did that cover fungal too ? What about possible air sac mite infection ? Has anything at all changed in her environment that you can think of...new furniture, carpet, throw rug, etc. anything that could irritate the very sensitive budgie respiratory system ? Is she molting or doing more than normal preening ? Vet's are certainly expensive but the good ones are worth it. I am not a big fan of any vet who prescribes an anti biotic "just in case" because they wipe out good bacteria along with bad. Do you use pro biotics following the use of anti b's to help restore your bird's good bacteria ? How about regular use of Apple Cider Vinegar in the water ? Keep her warm and take her cage in a hot steamed up bathroom if her breathing becomes distressed. I would write down a lot of questions on paper before you go to vet and write down all their answer's to each while your there, and don't use a vet that's not avian or at least very avian experienced if you can help it. Prayer's for your little hen's recovery.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi,
I called her vet and he said that he only tested for bacteria and it was negative. I do normally give her ACV but because that vet suggested giving her bsp vitamin drops in water I have stopped giving her ACV but should I start again and give her ACV every alternative day or do you think it will interfere with vitamins, it shouldn't right?

I have never given her any pro biotics what is the difference between pre and pro biotic? I know that they are to replace good bacteria. She has recently started to lose lot of feather since a couple of days and I believe she might be starting her moult soon.

Please advise what I should do next? Also this vet said that though he didn't find anything in the test he said he will refer us to an avian vet but I think I will have to wait so in the meantime what should I do?
Thanks for your help
 

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Do not introduce any additional supplements at this time. You need to take the budgie to an Avian Vet right away for the proper diagnosis and treatment plan.

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma.
This is important as "regular" vets will often overlook symptoms that are quickly obvious to an Avian Vet.
When you rely on anyone who has not had training in Avian diagnosis and care, you may be delaying effective treatment.
This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recovery than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

If there are no Avian Vets near you, please find an Exotic Pet Veterinarian with experience in dealing with small birds.

I've merged your three threads regarding your budgie's health into one at this time.

 

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Take your vet's advice and let him refer you to an avian vet, your bird is enduring unnecessary suffering by waiting and if she is starting a molt that will put additional stress on her system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi,

I went to an avian vet yesterday it took some time to find a avian vet but even then it is 1 hour away it is called CJ halls. They have kept cutie overnight and will do an x ray and blood test. We were meant to collect her today if everything is okay but I called them today and they said they might have to keep her for one more night they have not explained any results yet as I was taking to the receptionist. On the day of the vet visit cutie was moulting and her poops had started to give off a smell but she was eating and playing as normal. She had lost weight overtime she was 46g but on the day of the vet visit she was 40g. Also do you think the vet will give us the x ray or do they keep it for themselves. I am not sure if I should have put her through this what if a simple probiotics would have been enough she might also be getting injections of antibiotics etc. Are these tests too much for a budgie especially when they are moulting???
 

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Is this where you went https://www.cjhall-vets.co.uk/services.asp#Birds if so it says that the vet here is an avian vet so hopefully you have finally found someone that can accurately determine what Cutie's problem is and get her on the correct treatment plan. Since the vet in the link I have here is a member of Association of Avian Veterinarians, if that is the vet that saw Cutie, I think you just have to put your trust in him and ask him whatever questions you have regarding the necessity of the tests that are being done. Hopefully he can get to the bottom of whatever is causing Cutie's illness as it has been going on too long. Please keep us posted on the progress.
 
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