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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading a lot on here(and only on here have I ever seen it) That a bird with short tail feathers that are 2 toned - means its pied or carrying a pied gene

Like the tail in the picture


now the reason I am asking is I have a few budgies with that type of tail(the one in the pic being one of them) that are NOT PIED what so ever and have NEVER given pied babies Unless they were put with a visual Pied bird
but if they were put with a normal Non pied bird they've never given pied babies, and their babies that I kept never produced pied babies So no split to pied either

but yet I have Visually Dominant pied and Recessive pied That do NOT have tails like that, I have Genetically split Recessive pied birds that don't have tails like that

so how's a tail like that mean the bird is Pied or carrying a pied gene? IF birds that have it NEVER give pied babies?

Also the "thumb print" for a pied bird on a bird that is NOT visually pied I've been told on here and read on here that means they're split to Recessive pied

I disagree with that because , I had kept a baby a couple years ago that had the pied marking on the head the "thumb print" Yet the bird itself is NOT pied at all I was told on this forum he was "split to recessive pied"

That would be the bird in the pic below on the RIGHT hand side

as you can see his mate is a Spangle she doesn't carry a single Pied gene in her I know the genetics of her parents The only thing her parents had is her mom is Dominant Pied - she's NOT there for she carries no Pied gene at all a budgie can't be split to Dominant pied (or any other Dominant gene either they have it visually or they don't have it at all)

Yet they had babies that were in fact DOMINANT PIED
so that in turn just told me that that male is a POORLY Marked DOMINANT PIED that the Thumb print and no visually body markings of a Pied did NOT mean he was split to recessive pied


I put him with a recessive pied as well and Never got Recessive pied babies he only gives Dominant Pied babies

Why do people say it means split to recessive pied?

also since I'm on the topic of pied, I don't know who told the person but I ran across some one who came here for advice on the mutations of their birds, they were told one of their birds was a double factor recessive pied - That is IMPOSSIBLE there is no such thing, a budgie can't be Double Factor Recessive pied, it can be double factor Dominant pied and it can be Dominant and Recessive Pied both Visually BUT they were told here on this forum their bird was a double factor recessive pied :(

after I left here a couple years ago I still sent people here to learn about budgies because I left for personal reasons that didn't mean I wasn't sending people to a Nice forum to learn from knowledgeable people., and this is what I hear they were told :( That disappointed me greatly!
 

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Sometimes the explanations get a bit convoluted and may be misunderstood. I have also seen people mistype dominant pied and then correct it to recessive pied after catching it themselves (using the edit function). Noone is perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sometimes the explanations get a bit convoluted and may be misunderstood. I have also seen people mistype dominant pied and then correct it to recessive pied after catching it themselves (using the edit function). Noone is perfect.
no I don't mean a simple typo I was a avid member here for many years and I left for personal reasons but in that time i was here there was very long drawn out discussions about it - and I've been waiting for mine to produce so I could see exactly how it all worked and since it's not going at all the way the "experts" have said now I'm back to wondering why they keep saying it over and over it's not a typo at all
 

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Just because someone in the forum said so and it is incorrect information doesn't mean the whole forum is to blame for, sometimes people say their opinions on what they think is correct and sometimes they might even go as far as stating it as correct when it isn't but that doesn't mean that this forum gives out incorrect information just because of those few people. We have some very experienced breeders, we all know who they are and we trust their opinions.

Not everyone in the forum is as knowledgeable, sometimes the take a guess and it may be wrong, many are still learning. By the way I have never heard that a bird with short tail feathers that are 2 toned - means its pied or carrying a pied gene ever.
 

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Hi. I value your opinions. I've learned a lot here over the years.

When it comes to pied, is my Nicky a true pied? He has super long tail feathers.
 

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I have yet to either...?

I totally agree with Corina here, just cause some people may be lacking some information on the topic, it doesn't mean that we're all like that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi. I value your opinions. I've learned a lot here over the years.

When it comes to pied, is my Nicky a true pied? He has super long tail feathers.
From the back I would say dominant pied he looks similar to my Tweety who's a Dominant Pied ,

Attached is 2 pics of Tweety a back view and front view (he's the one on the left in the front view, the one on the right is his "Honey" Casper =) )
 

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Thanks. :) I love that white patch. Now he thinks he's a big deal. :D
 

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I have never heard of the tail feather thing myself that is interesting if it is so... I hope some more experienced breeders come along that know more about it if it is true.

For the spot on the back of the head being recessive pied, it is not always the case, there are poorly marked SF domanant pieds that have close to the same mark, I have had them too :)
However sometimes that can be an indicator of the bird being split to it, just like some birds that are split recessive pied dont have iris rings. Not all birds fit this discription but some do show they are split for it with such things, it is not something you can always count on the be there though as not all birds show it.
But if the bird has a marking like that there is always a reason as it is not a normal marking to have on a bird that is not a pied :) I have never seen a bird that was not either SF pied or split to recessive that had that mark though myself.

Breeding is the best way to know for sure and most of the only way to be 100% positive. We have to remember too though that just having one clutch will not always show everything that a bird is carrying when the persentage of babies that will come from a pair that are both split to something can be small :) Pairs that I have bred many times have thrown babies that all of the previous clutches they had did not show. I know of some breeders that have had generations and generations of babies and think they know everything in the backrounds of their birds but then something unexpected comes out. That is one of the reasons I love breeding! We can always have suprises :D
 

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Never seen any post stating that but alright..
We do have very many respected breeders here, and some who are new. On forums information can easily be read wrong or said wrong. It happens.
 

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hi there,

i have never heard that about the tail markings and i think your experience shows it is false...

as far as the head spot goes, occasionally a dom pied will show only a head spot like yours. it is also a sign of a split rec pied. i have bred many birds that had one parent a rec pied and had the spot, and they went on to produce rec pied chicks. but it is not always present so i call it a sign rather than proof that a bird may be split rec pied, it would be more likely to be a split rec pied than a poorly marked dom pied though.

also, i am sure we all pass on inaccurate information at some stage either through lack of knowledge or a brain failure moment...
 

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i also have never heard of the tail feather thing being a sign of a pied bird, but in saying that im by no means an expert im still learning.
i think everyone here tries their best to help others with their birds mutations, we do have a lot of experienced breeders here that give the best advice they can.
 

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Hi. I've always heard that when a bird is split to recessive pied, if it has the spot on its head, it will be a much smaller spot than what the normal dominant pied has. Don't know if that helps at all. :)

Also, spangles are a type of pied, even though they aren't referred to that way normally. They can have a pied spot on their head, too.
 

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I've never heard anything about two toned short tail feathers having anything to do with pied mutations.

The markings on a clearflight pied can be very variable, some can have only one or two clear tail or wing feathers and others can have large clear areas.

Dominant pieds are are usually more uniform.

Only a small percentage of birds that are split for recessive pied will have a head spot
 

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I was under the impression that dominant pieds and recessive pieds always have clear "thumbprint" spots, but the spots are sometimes masked by clear head feathers found in df dominant pieds and most recessive pieds. Am I correct?
 

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I was under the impression that dominant pieds and recessive pieds always have clear "thumbprint" spots, but the spots are sometimes masked by clear head feathers found in df dominant pieds and most recessive pieds. Am I correct?
Yes. Clearflight pieds also have a head spot
 

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