[Didoushkaya]

Is this early onset of scaly face?

Clouds is 6 months old or so :no older for sure) he is pure aviary and has only been with us for 2 weeks.

I think I'm seeing a change happen around his cere and beak. Is this scaly face or just dryness/vitamin defficiency?

At the moment he's still refusing to touch anything but his seeds. The only green stuff he has are seeds from winter grass we pick for him in our garden.

Thanks for your help!

 

[ParrotletsRock]

It's hard to say, if there is a bit of mites along the bottom of his cere then it is VERY early, if you can catch him you can rub a tiny bit of olive oil on his cere and beak.. That will help for either mites or dryness.

 

[Budget baby]

:budgie: Cloud is a lovely budgie that is for sure, I agree rub some olive oil around his cere and be careful not to get it in his nares.

 

[FaeryBee]

Dee,

The others have addressed your question regarding Scaly Mites so I'll offer some information which may be helpful regarding Vitamin Deficiencies and the use of ACV as a probiotic.

Are you giving your birds ACV in their water? It is great natural probiotic.
Holistic/Natural Remedies [Articles] - Talk Budgies Forums

Other supplements you may wish to consider:
Guardian Angel (Supplement for sick or stressed birds)
Guardian Angel from The Bird Care Company

Soluvite D (Vitamin D supplement for birds who get limited sunlight)
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_soluvited.php

This article outlines the importance of specific Vitamins for Budgies:
http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition-[articles]/18273-need-effect-vitamins-health-budgerigars.html

 

[Didoushkaya]

It's hard to say, if there is a bit of mites along the bottom of his cere then it is VERY early, if you can catch him you can rub a tiny bit of olive oil on his cere and beak.. That will help for either mites or dryness.

That sounds like a good suggestion, thank you. I'll give it a go and see how it progresses in the next few days.

Unfortunately the only avian vet in our region has just been bereaved and is therefore out if action for an undetermined amount of time. Otherwise I would have been able to get Coulds a proper health check.

Is the olive oil rub a daily thing or just a one off?

 

[Didoushkaya]

:budgie: Cloud is a lovely budgie that is for sure, I agree rub some olive oil around his cere and be careful not to get it in his nares.

Thanks for the nice comment. We are very fond of him too. Catching him shouldn't be an issue as he is so keen to step on his each nowadays. For the last two days he's also been doing it on my finger and loves his free flying time around his 'tree'.

While our vet is on a leave of absence, I have been able to obtain a dilution of eprinex, to apply as a spot at the back of his head once a week for three weeks. Should I do it anyway just as safety or wait until we're sure that it's a parasite?

 

[Didoushkaya]

Dee,

The others have addressed your question regarding Scaly Mites so I'll offer some information which may be helpful regarding Vitamin Deficiencies and the use of ACV as a probiotic.

Are you giving your birds ACV in their water? It is great natural probiotic.
Holistic/Natural Remedies [Articles] - Talk Budgies Forums

Other supplements you may wish to consider:
Guardian Angel (Supplement for sick or stressed birds)
Guardian Angel from The Bird Care Company

Soluvite D (Vitamin D supplement for birds who get limited sunlight)
Lady Gouldian Finch .com - Soluvite D

This article outlines the importance of specific Vitamins for Budgies:
http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition-[articles]/18273-need-effect-vitamins-health-budgerigars.html

Hi Deborah and thank you for the wealth of information you always provide. I'll have a look at all this today as soon as I've sorted breakfast and lunches for the family.

If you have any suggestions regarding my two other questions (olive oil how often and for how long and treatment provided by other vert) please do not hesitate to share.

 

[ParrotletsRock]

That sounds like a good suggestion, thank you. I'll give it a go and see how it progresses in the next few days.

Unfortunately the only avian vet in our region has just been bereaved and is therefore out if action for an undetermined amount of time. Otherwise I would have been able to get Coulds a proper health check.

Is the olive oil rub a daily thing or just a one off?

I would do it daily for a while... If it is mites the oil will smother them. Check his feet and vent too as those places are also areas affected by the scaly face mite. You just need a tiny smear, you don't need to wet it. Be careful not to get it in his nares.

 

[Didoushkaya]

I would do it daily for a while... If it is mites the oil will smother them. Check his feet and vent too as those places are also areas affected by the scaly face mite. You just need a tiny smear, you don't need to wet it. Be careful not to get it in his nares.

Awesome. Will do that. Thanks!

 

[Didoushkaya]

We finally managed to see the avian vet this morning. After trying in vain to get Clouds onto a tiny transport cage that had been lent to us, and since I didn't want to have to grab him again one way or another (next time, next time) I finally gave up and decided that the best option was to get him in his big cage and bring the whole setup to the vet. Téo, who was home sick from school, helped a lot and kept Clouds reassured (somewhat) during the 25 minute drive.

The vet couldn't say whether the (still) dry patch at the base of his cere was scaly face mites but then she looked at his feet and showed me the telltale little pinkish patches. Since we'd already done 2 weekly application of an eprinex solution, she told us to continue doing so for another week and said we should be fine after that. Yay and teepee!


She said his cere would go back to normal on its own once the mites were gone.

Now I need to track the breeder that we got Clouds from in order to let them know about the scaly face. The chairman of the local budgie club has already offered to help with that. It is impossible to say whether the breeder has a scaly face problem. After all, Clouds had been at a bird show for a couple of days when we took him home. He was stuck with two other birds in a tiny cage amongst a wall of dozens of such tiny cages. He could easily have got contaminated then.

It would also be interesting to have a chat with the breeder about what they give to their aviary birds so as to understand better why Clouds came to us as such a seed junkie...

Our vet explained that New Zealanders seemed to be very far behind in terms of bird nutrition and that most people (lots of breeders included, unfortunately) believe that all that budgies need is a seed diet.

In fact, two weeks agor, the 'bird specialist' at our pet store told me that budgies didn't need anything else than seeds and explained that what I read on the internet (meaning on this forum) was just typical 'American food-fad nonsense'. It makes me giggle to think of the comments this is going to get

Other than that, she didn't find anything wrong with him but commented that he was very quiet for a budgie. I don't what you guys think but from a bird who's still settling in his new family and has just been put, cage and all, into a strange moving thing that makes a lot of noise, then hauled into a strange place and has a strange person staring at him through the bars of his cage, I really wonder what else should be expected?

Anyway, pleased that this ordeal is over. Clouds made the trip back into the tiny transport cage. He did not appreciate that at all and kept chewing on the bars (not such a quiet budgie anymore). As soon as we came back, we put him back in his cage, close to us but not too close, cage covered on three sides. Téo read to us quietly for a while.

Clouds must have been very disoriented because as soon as he came out of his tiny box, he went for the pellets and had a feed Completely forgot that he didn't like them

 

[StarlingWings]

We finally managed to see the avian vet this morning. After trying in vain to get Clouds onto a tiny transport cage that had been lent to us, and since I didn't want to have to grab him again one way or another (next time, next time) I finally gave up and decided that the best option was to get him in his big cage and bring the whole setup to the vet. Téo, who was home sick from school, helped a lot and kept Clouds reassured (somewhat) during the 25 minute drive.

The vet couldn't say whether the (still) dry patch at the base of his cere was scaly face mites but then she looked at his feet and showed me the telltale little pinkish patches. Since we'd already done 2 weekly application of an eprinex solution, she told us to continue doing so for another week and said we should be fine after that. Yay and teepee!

It's great to hear that Clouds has made such good progress and that he'll be back to normal soon I agree that it was probably the close proximity to so many other birds that got him infected.

In fact, two weeks ago, the 'bird specialist' at our pet store told me that budgies didn't need anything else than seeds and explained that what I read on the internet (meaning on this forum) was just typical 'American food-fad nonsense'. It makes me giggle to think of the comments this is going to get

I'm just :laughing:
'American food-fad nonsense'
Oh, goodness.
Everyone feed your budgies hamburgers and french fries like real Americans

Clouds must have been very disoriented because as soon as he came out of his tiny box, he went for the pellets and had a feed Completely forgot that he didn't like them

Haha, hope he recovers from the ordeal but at least he ate his pellets!
Thanks for the update, so glad to hear he's doing well And Téo sounds like he's very fond of Clouds.

 

[Jonah]

Sound's like Clouds will be mite free in no time...

Also sound's like you are a lot more knowledgeable than the "bird specialist" at the pet store...:clap:

 

[Budget baby]

I am so happy Clouds is back home in his own environment.
What you have experienced sadly many of us have encountered before as well.
If wanting a healthy and well adjusted budgie to live a long as possible life then YES we are guilty
You are doing wonderfully with your care and health responsibilities regarding Clouds.
Scaly Face Mites could be a potential harmful problem if left untreated.
Perhaps if you need to catch Clouds to place into a transport cage you can use a small dowel perch get him to step up onto the perch then gently but quickly transfer him into the smaller cage. No hands were used to do so. Or a favourite toy or good old millet.

 

[Didoushkaya]

It's great to hear that Clouds has made such good progress and that he'll be back to normal soon I agree that it was probably the close proximity to so many other birds that got him infected.

I'm just :laughing:
'American food-fad nonsense'
Oh, goodness.
Everyone feed your budgies hamburgers and french fries like real Americans

Haha, hope he recovers from the ordeal but at least he ate his pellets!
Thanks for the update, so glad to hear he's doing well And Téo sounds like he's very fond of Clouds.

Thank you!

Téo is very fond of his budgie and did not like it at all when the vet was trying to catch his bird.

'Hamburgers and fries', I did laugh as well.

Clouds is already completely recovered from the morning ordeal. At least we know something for sure: Clouds does not hold a grudge

At the moment he's sitting on his mini-play-gym just next to me. He's done that little thing a few time when he looks like he's looking for his angle to land on something. The intended target was clearly my shoulder but I guess he's still working on that one at the moment. I pretend to ignore him

You will never believe this: he's just had his usual afternoon tea. Having a choice of seeds, pellets and leafy stuff, he went for ... drumroll ...
greens and pellets!

I was absolutely speechless. Can barely type it.

Sound's like Clouds will be mite free in no time...

Also sound's like you are a lot more knowledgeable than the "bird specialist" at the pet store...:clap:

Like the vet said, there is a definite lack of education in this country when it comes to bird diet. That's not everyone though: the last breeder I talked to told me specifically to give more greens than seeds. However I think I'm going to print little cards with a QR code linking to TalkBudgie.com and start handing them out each time I hear the 'all seed diet is fine' speech.

I am so happy Clouds is back home in his own environment.
What you have experienced sadly many of us have encountered before as well.
If wanting a healthy and well adjusted budgie to live a long as possible life then YES we are guilty
You are doing wonderfully with your care and health responsibilities regarding Clouds.
Scaly Face Mites could be a potential harmful problem if left untreated.
Perhaps if you need to catch Clouds to place into a transport cage you can use a small dowel perch get him to step up onto the perch then gently but quickly transfer him into the smaller cage. No hands were used to do so. Or a favourite toy or good old millet.

I hear you but have no idea how I would go about that. He doesn't play with toys yet nor does he go nuts for millet, so neither of those would be sufficient to get him into a tiny cage... Could you give me more details about the process?

Last question:

Should I be cleaning and disinfecting the cage, perches etc? When/how often? While we are treating? After?

Thanks for the help.

 

[AnimalKaperz]

G'day from across the ditch! :wave:

Yes, absolutely you need to scour the cage during and after treatment, to help prevent reinfection of the horrid mites!

I have a "transit" lounge cage, to pop my birs in whilst I scrub their perches, toys and feeders in hot, soapy water. I generally use an antibacterial hand wash nd a couple of "glugs of white vinegar in the water. Then, when I rinse everything, I do so until no more bubbles or smell of vinegar.

Same deal with the cage. Put in sun to dry. If there are things that won't dry quickly (wooden perches for example) just have clean, spare ones ready to swap over whilst the others dry. I do my cages totally once a week - mites or not.

In between, they get a bit of a poop scoop every day, removing excess etc. If I have a hen who is runny from being about to lay eggs, then that will get a bit more detail.

Having spares is very handy, if you can swing it.

 

[FaeryBee]

Dee,

I'm glad to hear Clouds is home now and well on his way to a full recovery. :thumbsup:
I'm sure listening to the "bird specialist" was quite amusing. :laughing:
merican fad diets, indeed!

I've merged your current thread with the one formerly in emergency so all the information regarding Clouds' recent ordeal is now in one place.

:wave:

 

[Didoushkaya]

G'day from across the ditch! :wave:

Yes, absolutely you need to scour the cage during and after treatment, to help prevent reinfection of the horrid mites!

I have a "transit" lounge cage, to pop my birs in whilst I scrub their perches, toys and feeders in hot, soapy water. I generally use an antibacterial hand wash nd a couple of "glugs of white vinegar in the water. Then, when I rinse everything, I do so until no more bubbles or smell of vinegar.

Same deal with the cage. Put in sun to dry. If there are things that won't dry quickly (wooden perches for example) just have clean, spare ones ready to swap over whilst the others dry. I do my cages totally once a week - mites or not.

In between, they get a bit of a poop scoop every day, removing excess etc. If I have a hen who is runny from being about to lay eggs, then that will get a bit more detail.

Having spares is very handy, if you can swing it.

Excellent. This is pretty much what we already do (daily light cleans, weekly thorough wash) minus the vinegar and anti bacterial soap. The vet also recommended to 'cook' any wooden bits that can fit in an oven at 50 degrees (C) for an hour.
We don't have a spare cage yet but until we get one I can do all this with Téo while Clouds is having his free flight time.

Thanks a million for the precious advice

 

[Didoushkaya]

Dee,

I'm glad to hear Clouds is home now and well on his way to a full recovery. :thumbsup:
I'm sure listening to the "bird specialist" was quite amusing. :laughing:
merican fad diets, indeed!

I've merged your current thread with the one formerly in emergency so all the information regarding Clouds' recent ordeal is now in one place.

:wave:

Thanks Deb!

 

[MascaraRabbit]

Hope clouds makes a full recovery soon! And for future reference, no just one application of olive oil, coconut oil, or mineral oil would not be enough to kill off the mites. However I would prefer to use organic coconut oil...since it has anti-fungal and microbial properties. What these oils do is suffocate the mites living under the surface of the skin. But that doesn't kill the eggs that will hatch in a few days. Also be sure to clean your cage very thoroughly. I've read in some places that these mites can even burrow into your wood perches. However, I'm not too sure on that bit. Anyway, if you ever go with the oil route I'd apply it on the affected areas every few days or so for about 4-6 weeks. Be careful to not get it all over their feathers though, as this can cause insulation issues for your bird. Furthermore, this issue can also be remedied ivermectin in more severe cases. (which is prescribed by the vet).

And about the cooking of the perches... I think thats a great idea, only I might soak them in salt water or something for a little while first so they don't burn or crack!