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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My two budgies are suffering from chronic megabacteria. They've gone through two rounds of megabac-s in their drinking water in the past 6 months, but their megabacteria keeps flaring up, so I am now going to administer sodium benzoate in their drinking water. However, I've read that as budgies will naturally drink more in the hot summer months, the full dose of sodium benzoate (1 teaspoon to a liter of water) can cause toxicity and death. Does anyone here have experience with administering sodium benzoate to their budgies when it was particularly hot? If so, what dosage did you use? Any advice anyone can offer is greatly appreciated. :wild::grey:

I would really rather not have to put them on stronger anti-fungals, as I know those can be fatal. Does anyone have any other advice for treating lingering megabacteria, besides amphotericin-b/megabac-s and sodium benzoate?
 

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Hi! :welcome: to Talk Budgies

I use a scant 1/8 teaspoon of Sodium Benzoate to 10 oz of filtered water. The water is mixed fresh each time the water in their dishes is changed. In my case, twice daily.
I generally do a 30 day course of the Sodium Benzoate and then give them a break of a few weeks before the next 30 day course.

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Welcome to talk budgies. Deborah has given you some great advice that I personally also found success with. Sodium benzoate works! Please do keep us posted on your bird's progress, which can be measured most accurately with a gram scale put to use about every fourth day. It took my bird's the better part of three full week's before I could see they were gaining weight. Would love to see some pic's....:001_smile:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you both for the advice and the warm welcome! I've actually lurked around this forum for quiet some time now, but I will be sure to look through stickies. I really hope that sodium benzoate helps my fids recover. Btw, can I give sodium benzoate in the water as an on-going, long term treatment, as long as I give my fids a few weeks break between each 30 day treatment?
 

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Hi there and :welcome: to Talk Budgies!

It's great to have you here with us; you couldn't have come to a better place to learn even more about these beautiful birds! :thumbsup: You've been given great advice; I hope that the Sodium Benzoate treatment will help your little ones recover!

I would think that each 30-day treatment is an ongoing treatment, especially since it's in the water. :thumbup:

It's good to hear you've had a look around! If you have any questions after reading through anything, be sure to ask as we'd love to help! ;)

We look forward to seeing you around the forums! :D

Cheers! :wave:
 

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Thank you both for the advice and the warm welcome! I've actually lurked around this forum for quiet some time now, but I will be sure to look through stickies. I really hope that sodium benzoate helps my fids recover. Btw, can I give sodium benzoate in the water as an on-going, long term treatment, as long as I give my fids a few weeks break between each 30 day treatment?
I generally wait two or three months between each 30 day treatment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you so much FaeryBee, two to three month intervals between treatments sounds like a good plan! The only thing I don't understand is why one of my budgies, Charlie (he's an American/Australian budgie) always recovers much faster than my English budgie George. All I can think of is that George doesn't drink as much water in general, so he doesn't get as much medicine/sodium benzoate in his system as Charlie, especially considering that he is much larger and thus requires even more of the medicated water. I was thinking it might be necessary to syringe feed George the sodium benzoate water to make sure he gets enough of it in his system. I don't want to increase the dose in their regular drinking water so as not to overdose Charlie. Does anyone know a crop dose for sodium benzoate? Should I just mix up a regular dose (1 tsp to 1 liter of water/ 1/4 tsp to 10 oz of water) and syringe feed George a few drops of that? I'm at my wits end as to what to do to coax him to drink more. :(
 

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I personally wouldn't recommend trying to force George to drink the water from a syringe.

Does George like to bathe?
If so, use the sodium benzoate water as bath water.
If he's like my budgies, he'll drink some of the bath water and will also get some of the sodium benzoate benefits as he preens his feathers after his bath. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They both hate bathing in their little bath (we have to mist them instead), but they will usually drink the water in it, so that's a great idea. I will definitely try it and report back. Thank you!
 

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Sodium Benzoate

Hi, I tried to give you some hints in the PM. But please listen to the wisdom of Deborah, and Randy and others here on TB. They have been truly in the trenches keeping their birds safe from illness. Boosting the immune system is my very first aid. When combined with the wisdom of the info in The Stickys.
and wisdom of your vet and your regular gram scale weights to detect abnormal
patterns in the droppings are my guide on a daily basis with daily health care.
Please feel free to ask any of us for clarification. Deborah and Randy have daily wisdom in keeping our FIDS healthy. Recovery can take a while as the birds bodies must repair tissues and this takes a lot of energy before replacing the birds normal weight.Pre soaking millet spray and fresh moist veggies are a good way to get the moisture /meds in your birds with less stress on restraining force feeding. Blessings for a full recovery on their way for your FIDs.
Jo Ann:hug::hug::hug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just a quick update on Charles and George. They seem to be responding well to the Sodium Benzoate treatment. I tried to give them a sodium benzoate bath, but as always, they refused to bathe on their own, so I filled a small spray bottle with the solution and misted them (they love their "showers", so they were very chipper the rest of the day). My only concern is that George still has a few seeds in his overnight poop, but not nearly as much as he had in the first few days of the treatment. It's been about 9 days since I started giving them Sodium Benzoate, so I guess it takes a bit of time for their poop to go back to normal.

Hopefully I will see even more improvement in the coming days/weeks. Thank you again to everyone for your helpful advice and a listening ear. :)
 

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I'm glad you are noticing a difference already!

Prayers for Charles and George that the Sodium Benzoate will provide a big improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, it's day 13 of the sodium benzoate treatment and for some reason, George seemed to have relapsed back to his old self. He was a bit lethargic this morning, though he may have just been tired. Also, he still has a least a few undigested seeds in his poop throughout the day and at night, though less than before. Am I being impatient or is the treatment not working the way it should be? How long does it usually take with this treatment to see improvement, especially when it comes to undigested seeds? :(
 

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It varies from bird to bird so unfortunately I can't give you a definitive answer.
Just keep using it and think positive.

I'm sending lots of positive thoughts and healing energy for your budgies!
 

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From my experience it is still too early. Weight stabilization and or even small gain's was at three week's or longer, and dropping's improvement right toward's end of treatment. Did you get a gram scale and get a starting weight to measure progress with ? JoAnn's advice on boosting the immune system is very important as well as organ/tissue cleanse repair. Milk thistle and dandelion root was given daily in powder form over food for my bird's. While the sodium b is great for creating an internal enviroment that the megaB can't survive in, it does nothing to treat the ill's it has created. Keep up the patience, and good work, and do everything you can to aid their recovery and you should have good result's. Prayer's for your little friend's full recovery....:pray:...:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Unfortunately George has taken a turn for the worst. He is passing undigested seeds all the time now and he can only digest boiled food (boiled millet and eggs). I switched their water to acv and sprinkled probiotics over their food, but he isn't getting any better. The vet is closed for the weekend and the last time I took them there she didn't seem very knowledgeable. Although she treats birds she isn't exclusively an avian vet. He is lethargic and sleeps a lot. I don't know what to do! :'(

I'm not sure what's going on, why the treatment only made him worse. All I can think of is it might have wiped all the good bacteria in his stomach, making it hard for him to digest seeds. I don't want to stop their treatment but I have to in order to give them acv in their water.

Perhaps it's a bacterial infection? Would it be possible to contract a bacterial infection while taking sodium benzoate in the water? He landed on a dusty surface the night before he pooped all of his seeds out that he ate. But then again, he isn't vomiting or anything. Please, any advice you can offer is sorely needed right now. I have some amoxicillin n hand that I could try giving him.
 

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Hi
I'm sorry, I have no experience in this area so cannot give you any more advice, but I really hope that George can be helped to overcome this. :hug:
Do you have a second cage, that you could put right up beside their current one, so that they could be separated in order to be medicated differently if needed?
 

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I am no vet but in the situation you describe I would not recommend starting to administer the amoxy, nor would I stop the sodium b to give acv. Your info tell's of bird's that have been under attack from the mega for a substantial amount of time and this is going to take time to clear up and even more time to heal from if healing is possible. I would try to PM JoAnn at this point and see what she recommend's. If he were my bird, i would keep him on the sodium B, sprinkle probiotic's, milk thistle, and dandelion root over his food in powder form and keep him warm and quiet. You did not respond to my last post about weighing him or the milk thistle and dandelion root suggestion for organ health/restoration....not much more I can suggest but as I said, contact JoAnn and do what she say's.... 
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I am no vet but in the situation you describe I would not recommend starting to administer the amoxy, nor would I stop the sodium b to give acv. Your info tell's of bird's that have been under attack from the mega for a substantial amount of time and this is going to take time to clear up and even more time to heal from if healing is possible. I would try to PM JoAnn at this point and see what she recommend's. If he were my bird, i would keep him on the sodium B, sprinkle probiotic's, milk thistle, and dandelion root over his food in powder form and keep him warm and quiet. You did not respond to my last post about weighing him or the milk thistle and dandelion root suggestion for organ health/restoration....not much more I can suggest but as I said, contact JoAnn and do what she say's....
No, I haven't gotten a gram scale yet, honestly I don't know how I will get them to stay on it to get weighed properly. But I am taking them to the vet tomorrow (hopefully they can squeeze us in tomorrow). I guess I will return them to th sodium benzoate tomorrow then. I have been sprinkling probiotics and milk thistle powder on their food the past few days. I also got them some pellets today and I guess I will try to leave that for them to eat tomorrow when I'm at work. I know switching them to pelleted cold turkey isn't good, but George won't be able to keep any of the seeds in him and will starve that way. And yes, I decided against the amoxicillin, he isn't acting like a bird with a stomach bug. His only issue seems to be digestion and he gets lethargic after eating because of how slow his digestion is. It takes him a long time to even poop out what he eats but when he does, the poop is nicely formed and looks healthy (as long as he had boiled food and no raw seeds). Since I'll be at work tomorrow I can't give them cooked food so that it doesn't get bacteria on it sitting out all day. I will email jo ann and ask for advice. Thank you for your suggestions.
 

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Sodium Benzoate

:hug::hug:Hi, The computer dumped my post -so starting over.

First of all, spend the 20 dollars for the scale. Get a kitchen plastic, punch holes in top and lay lid lightly on the plastic after placing bird in box. Tare the scale with box and lid then add bird. Do this daily in Am before feeding as this will give as close to fasting weight ad possible. Take your notes to vet. Ask vet to check for a possible bacterial -MegaBac mutual support in the niche. Changing Ph will go a long way to allow good bacteria to take over. ACV is a great long term protocol combined with Sodium Benzoate protocol in water as preventative and immune system boost. Ask vet if there is a treatment that bypasses sore area by tubing George. Megabac blocks the ability of George's GI tract ability digest food and add the pain /raw area makes the bird reluctant to eat. Soft food probiotics etc sprinkled on soft food will add nutrition and be less abrasive. It takes a while to heal the damage done by the MegaBac. Can vet suggest a soothing treatment for the raw area. Follow advise of vet and others Like Randy and FaeryBee. Early detection is winning for infected birds. Use that scale daily while birds are ill and then weekly to detect any hint of a problem. My gram scale is a treasured tool add condition of droppings and you can gather critical info in keeping our birds healthy. These are among the first things your vet will use to help
diagnose an illness in your birds. An ongoing record of weight and condition of droppings will help your vet a lot and get your bird in for a check up faster. Delays with megabac diagnosis can be a critical issue in recovery of your birds. Blessings and prayers for full recovery for your birds.
Jo A:hug::hug:nn :pray:
 
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