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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If I paired a yellow face with a normal (blue series), what will the outcome of the babies be? According to "Genetic calculator 1.3" all the babies are yellow face. Is that correct? Yellow face is also dominant, correct? Can anyone explain the outcome with punnet squares, please?
 

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like lindsay said, it depends if the yf is df or sf. if it is sf then it only has one yf gene and will pass that to half its chicks and the non-yf gene to the other half. the other parent will give all chick non-yf, so half hte chicks will be yf.

if the yf parent is df then it will give yf genes to all chicks and they will all be yf.

of course, if it is a yf mutant 1 then you can tell if it is df as it will have a white face. if it is yf 2 then it will only have a chance of being df if both parents were yf2.

i can't make a punnett square to upload just at the moment sorry...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you, April. This is the way Tonic explain it to me before. So the programme "Genetic Calculator 1.3" is wrong. Thanks for the time constructing this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've read an article written by Ghalib Al-Nasser on YF budgies. He says: "A YF mutant 2 is dominant to YF mutant 1. This means that if mutant 1 and mutant 2 yellowfaces are paired together only mutant 2 Yellowfaced birds will be produced but all will be split for mutant 1."
I have babies from a cobalt YF 2 (****) and a YF 1 Violet greywing (hen). The baby (****) looks like his mother.
Some questions:
1) Is the hen really a YF 1?
2) If she is - then the baby **** must be a YF 2 (according to Al-Nasser), but he looks just like the mother (??)

Another interesting statistic: I have 8 babies from this pair and all 8 are YF.
(I sold most of te babies; so I cannot tell if they are YF 1 or 2.)
 

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If all the babies were yellowface they're most likely type2 I unless the blue is a double mutant 2YF(2 dominant Yellow reducers as opposed to 2 the 2 recessive Yellow eliminators in which case they're more likely type1s) Be careful not to confuse mutant2 with type2 Mutant Describes the genes type describes the appearance
 

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ok- there are actually 5 genes for yellow color in budgies(according to current theory)

green- dominant to everything else (the "wild type")

blue- recessive yellow eliminating gene (one blue gene with one green and you still have a green budgie two blue genes and the budgie will have no yellow at all)

yellowface mutant 1- is a strong yellow reducing gene dominant to blue but recessive to green (one green and one yf mutant 1 looks green, 1 blue and one yf mutant 1 looks like a type 1, 2 yf mutant 1 genes and the budgie is visually BLUE the two copies remove all the yellow)

goldenface and yellowface mutant 2 are two separate but very similar yellow reducing genes that appear to be weaker than yellowface mutant 1 also recessive to green but dominant to blue (green still trumphs everything, mix them with blue and you get the yellow wash of the type 2, put them together or with yf mutant 1 and you get type 1s of varying intensity)

I hope that's clearer :)
 

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The Genetic calculator is wrong on yellow faces in 2 ways one like you've noticed you will not get 100% yellow face even when you put two yellow face parents together you do NOT get 100% yellow face babies! I guarantee this! I do it all the time and only a small fraction of mine are yellow face.

another thing its wrong on is it shows a Budgie can be split to yellow face- this is false a budgie is either yellow face or its not - it can't be split

but Technically there is a DF yellow face- the bird looks like a normal Budgie - i'll use my sky blue male for an example - his face is white like it should be, I put him with a non yellow face female and got several Yellow face babies, In actuality he's a DF Yellow face meaning he's a yellow face BUT looks normal it is different than type 1 and type 2 and Golden it's a "type" of its own Also I know it was him who was the DF Yellow Face because I put the same Normal female with Several other Normal males and never got yellow faces from them I only got them When I put my Sky blue Male with a Normal Non yellow face female.

I also see a lot of people refer to golden face being the same as type 2- that is also incorrect, type 2 yellow face Is the one that The yellow face "bleeds" into the body color changing the body color say of a Sky blue it'll make it Sea green (or sea foam green depending on the word you use to describe the color)

Type 1 is a Very pale yellow and stays to the face (some times it does wash over the wings and tail but does NOT change the body color at all!

a Golden face is similar to a type 1 where as the body color doesn't change, it can "wash" over the wings/tail but it's more just of the color of the face is a DEEP GOLDEN YELLOW (like a butter cup yellow) it is a Deeper yellow than Type 1 and even type 2
 

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dries, i do not have much experience with combining the different yellow face varieties but heres what i think...;)

your make def looks like a yf2. the hen has no obvious wash on the body colour so could be a yf1 but they do usually have pale yellow. also if Ghalib Al-Nasser says yf2 are dominant... he has a lot of expereince and knowledge so....

so either your hen is a yf1 but the **** is yf2/yf1, so allthe chicks would be either yf1 or yf2.

or the hen is a gf and so is the chick. the yellow on a gf would be stronger so that may be the answer. i am not sure how gf interacts with yf2 so that my not solve the puzzle...
 

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When you are breeding yellow face if you know what type you have it is quite straight forward. Things can get complicated when you mix the types together.

There seems to be more incorrect information on the net about yellow face than there is about any other mutation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
or the hen is a gf and so is the chick. the yellow on a gf would be stronger so that may be the answer. i am not sure how gf interacts with yf2 so that my not solve the puzzle...
After reading all the information I got; I think that the hen and baby are golden faces.

There seems to be more incorrect information on the net about yellow face than there is about any other mutation. Nev

I think you are correct, because there are contradicting info on the net. Nev, do you know hoe YF2 and GF interacts?

Thanks to all who were trying to help.
 

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Nev, do you know hoe YF2 and GF interacts?
.
You you pair a single factor golden face to a single factor YF2 you will get 25% GF, 25% YF2, 25% that have both mutations but appear golden face & 25% normal white face.

I have always found that the 3 yellow face types are inherited in a way that suggests co-dominance but visibly a bird with 2 types will only show the darker mutation. I don't subscribe to the theory that any of the 3 mutations can be carried in a split form
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nev, you said that yellow faces are straight forward, but now it seems that there are different theories. Nothing seems staright forward where budgies are concerned - I love it!
Thanks for the info - now I must find a way in testing your and Aa-Nasser's different theories.
 

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hi there nev,

can i ask a bit about your opinion of yfs?

is it that you do not beleive the three varieties are alleles of the blue gene?

or is it that you agree with that but think they are all co-dominant rather than recessive? do you think the yf genes are co-dominant with the green gene to?
 

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if yellow face was recessive would it not need both parents to be yellow face in order to get any? Just like any other Recessive gene - Like Recessive pied If just one parent has it you don't get any visually

where as You can have just one yellow face parent and get yellow face babies no matter if its yellow face type 1, type 2 or Golden face or Double Factor Yellow face It only takes 1 parent to give yellow face babies- so I don't think its recessive at all

Also How can you get a Yellow face type 2 with just a Yellow face type 1?? Doesn't it take 2 yellow faces to make the yellow face type 2? Or do i have that confused with the Double Factor Yellow face? (Double factor yellow face being the Blue series bird that looks like a Normal but in fact is a yellow face

but I've always thought in order to get a type 2 both parents would need to be yellow face

to me yellow face isn't all that confusing except how to figure out how many your actually going to get- of course that relays mainly on how many babies hatch
 

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the general opinion (though not eveyone agrees:D) is that the 3 yf varieties are alleles of blue, just like the three dilute varieties are alleles.

so, on that particular locus (place on the chromosome) you have the option of having hte following genes:

green, blue, yf1. yf2, or gf.

green is dominant over all the rest so can be split for any of the others.
blue is recessive to all the others.
i am not 100% sure how the others relate to each other.

but this means that yf is recessive to green but dominant to blue. so for two greens to produce a yf they must both have the genes as you said. but if you mate a yf and a non-yf blue then only one needs the gene as the yf is dominant to blue...

of course nev has a lot of experience and knowledge so i am interested to hear how he sees them working...
 

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the general opinion (though not eveyone agrees:D) is that the 3 yf varieties are alleles of blue, just like the three dilute varieties are alleles.

so, on that particular locus (place on the chromosome) you have the option of having hte following genes:

green, blue, yf1. yf2, or gf.

green is dominant over all the rest so can be split for any of the others.
blue is recessive to all the others.
i am not 100% sure how the others relate to each other.

but this means that yf is recessive to green but dominant to blue. so for two greens to produce a yf they must both have the genes as you said. but if you mate a yf and a non-yf blue then only one needs the gene as the yf is dominant to blue...

of course nev has a lot of experience and knowledge so i am interested to hear how he sees them working...
 

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the general opinion (though not eveyone agrees:D) is that the 3 yf varieties are alleles of blue, just like the three dilute varieties are alleles.

so, on that particular locus (place on the chromosome) you have the option of having hte following genes:

green, blue, yf1. yf2, or gf.

green is dominant over all the rest so can be split for any of the others.
blue is recessive to all the others.
i am not 100% sure how the others relate to each other.

but this means that yf is recessive to green but dominant to blue. so for two greens to produce a yf they must both have the genes as you said. but if you mate a yf and a non-yf blue then only one needs the gene as the yf is dominant to blue...

of course nev has a lot of experience and knowledge so i am interested to hear how he sees them working...
oh ok I was wondering how you guys were meaning "recessive" now i think i get it LoL

but since a Green series bird already has a yellow face naturally, they could not also be a yellow face though could they?

the reason I ask is a good friend of mine Gave me a Lutino Male she no longer needed and I needed one - I had one before but he passed away so that's why I needed another- but any way he is A LOT darker than what mine was any other lutino I've ever seen (i've seen a lot they're easy to get around here) and what else I've noticed is Before she brought him to me he'd just finished a molt and on his forehead where a Normal budgie would have the bars, then molt out to be white- it's a Lighter yellow there just right at the forehead a little bit up towards the back of the head

if i had to put a color name to him instead of Yellow I'd use Golden yellow he's that deep dark of a yellow but unfortunately he's a light colored bird and my camera washes him out making him look like a Normal light yellow lutino I'm used to seeing but in person he's not light at all he's very dark He does have red eyes and I don't see any marking at all just that "fading" across the brow

I'll attach a pic even though like i said he's not this "bright" or "light" in person but this one pic sort of shows the "fading" on his head
when she first bought him she couldn't tell if he had red eyes or not, and thought he was a double factor spangle until she bred him and go no spangles at all , then she sent me a picture and i told her He had red eyes =)

1st pic is where you can see his "fading" on his brow a little bit I"ll have to see if he'll hold still in a bit when i go in and try to get better pics

the 2nd pic is just a body shot - just washed out lol

When i first got him and was looking at him I thought he was a golden face then it dawned on me He's green series They can't have yellow faces it's automatically yellow LOL - - - but after reading this thread I'm second guessing my self

she only bred him once put him with a Dominant pied - I can't remember if it was a Blue or Green series though but she got Green Dominant pied - - I'm crossing my fingers he's split to blue, But I'll find out soon enough I have an Albino hen for him =) and I already know if he's not split to Blue then I'll get all Lutino's if he's split to blue I'll get both Lutinos and Albinos - Had the same pairing before and that's why I needed another lutino So i can get both Albino and Lutino Or at least Lutino Those were sold out before eggs even hatched lol
 

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