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I've decided on this pairing between a "Pet" (Cowboy/American)-type & Show-Budgy....and really look forward to their young...

What would U think will the expected outcome of babies be?

# Wondering if there will be any Blue Normals?...and whether the dominant Grey (especially in the Show ****)...will result in majority chicks to be in Grey?

# Also with Spangle being dominant...what's the chance of having a non-Spangle baby?

# Lastly, if there is a high probability of having a Double-factor YF Type 1-which I think there is, how would the head markings in such a DF YF baby be?...just white?.... I can't imagine a Grey (blue series) bird with White head markings?

Here is the **** (Mr G - for Grey):
Budgy04-11_0137e1s.jpg

Budgy02-2011_0013e1.jpg

...and the Hen "MilkyBar":
Budgy04-11_0073e1.jpg

Budgy04-11_0089e1.jpg

Thanks for the help,

JacodK
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I just wanted to say the 3 birds in your signature are STUNNING!!:loveeyes:
Thanks Rena!

I haven't bred MilkyWay... I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to buy him from pet shop...and I can't wait to "test-breed him with other hens to establish his genetic "make-up"....

...however proud of the other 2 birds that came along...unfortunately with "Smoothy" being a type 2 Yellow-face bird...the "vivid cobalt blue" got washed out into a "sea-foam green" body colour...now that he is older...

Enjoy the TB site...!
 

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When ever I put a Grey with a non grey ALL the babies are grey

when I put 1 Spangle with a non spangle I get mainly all spangle - my last Spangle paring was 4 babies 3 of which was Spangle

Also if both parents are spangle - you'll get DF spangles which would be all White in a blue series bird no markings or color it would like like an Albino only w/out red eyes and since both are spangle you'll get a higher amount of Spangles than Just having 1 Parent a spangle

You probably will get DF yellow face since both parents are Yellow face. and yep it'll have a white mask like any other Non Yellow Face blue series bird

Here's one of mine - Grey non yellow face


and here is another of my Grey's - non yellow face



You won't know if you have any DF yellow faces unless you breed one to a For sure NON yellow face and get yellow face babies though
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks ATV,

It would have been great if such babies had Yellow-faces with the "washed-out" nature of thr DF Spangle...just think a white bird with YF?!

..but I understand it's not possible...interesting that the DF Spangle washes out ALL colour...except base colour....

Will the SF Spangle with Yellow-faces be of lighter Grey markings or is it difficult to tell?

See & speak again!
 

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Thanks ATV,

It would have been great if such babies had Yellow-faces with the "washed-out" nature of thr DF Spangle...just think a white bird with YF?!

..but I understand it's not possible...interesting that the DF Spangle washes out ALL colour...except base colour....

Will the SF Spangle with Yellow-faces be of lighter Grey markings or is it difficult to tell?

See & speak again!
Spangle doesn't change the body color like Say cinnamon does. so it'll all depend on how many dark factors the baby gets how dark or light it'll be
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks once again ATV,

Forgot to mention...your Grey Birds really look stunning...I'm starting to like the Grey & Grey-wing varieties much more...the more I get to see them!

# I heard the Spangle gene influences the "depth of body colour" (or am I confusing it with the Opaline gene?)...the reason for my earlier question...

# ... I thought the YF (if Type II) will similarly affect the Grey body colour (& especially the wing markings) as it happens in the Blue bird turning out to become Sea-foam Green...maybe the Grey gene is too dominant over the YF gene?

# Considering the Single- & Double- factors that the babies may inheret->...so Grey's also have the Single & Double factors just as the Cobalt & mauve colours result in the blue-series birds?....would these SF & DF colour adding factors then just result in deeper shades of Grey...?...will the DF Grey get near "Charcoal black"?

...your second bird has a bit of washed-out markings to the front of wings?...any relation to it being SF & DF?...or could it be Opaline affecting this wing markings of Hen...or are your 2 birds above just "Normal Greys" without any factors...?

Can't wait to see the SF & DF Spangle young from the above though...have U got babies at this time...seems that U'r pairing up the new additions only for now...

Stay well!
JacodK
 

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The hen is Grey Cinnamon Opaline I haven't bred her yet so unsure if she has anything else including DF or SF

as far as I know Spangle has no effect on the body color, I've never noticed it change any of mine's body colors

Type 1 yellow face stays on the Mask - and makes it a light yellow, sometimes it will bleed into the white areas of the wings and tail But it does NOT change the body color

Type 2 is the one that bleeds into the body color Making sky blue sea green

Grey does have a single and double factor - I'm not sure what a Double factor would look like, I have different shades of Grey but not sure If its because they're single factor , Double factor or if its other factors or if is just how the Grey Color Factor works

there is also 3 shades of Grey (in the blue series i'm sure its in green series to but I deal with Blue Series birds so I read more on it lol) which is Sky blue Grey, Cobalt Blue Grey, and Mauve Grey - From my understanding though When a Mauve has a Grey factor it's hard to figure it out I guess it really changes the tone of the mauve color(as does the violet factor)

The only pair I have set up right now the eggs should be hatching is Apollo and Raine- and its not really looking to good (it is their 1st time breeding though at least together I don't know if Raine was ever bred before) I found a part of a egg on the cage floor it did have a baby in it but wasn't fully developed and it was dried out but I don't know if it dried out before a parent opened it or If it dried out from being opened

she's burying the eggs under the bedding She had 6 eggs so minus the 1 i found on the cage floor makes 5 when I check I can usually see 3 sometimes 4 but she also will not get out of the nest if she's out and i walk in (or by the room) she runs back in

and Thanks for the compliments :) I love Greys, I'm actually trying to get Less grey wings - Seems every one who contacts me for birds wants brightly colored and well the grey wing takes that bright color to a dull color LOL but seems I keep getting birds with it or split to it w/out realizing they have it .. maybe some one is trying to tell me something and I'm not doing a good job listening lol

I have other pairs set up with eggs but either they're just starting to lay or its not time yet for them to start hatching, some haven't laid yet so i'm patiently waiting

I try to figure out
Thanks once again ATV,

Forgot to mention...your Grey Birds really look stunning...I'm starting to like the Grey & Grey-wing varieties much more...the more I get to see them!

# I heard the Spangle gene influences the "depth of body colour" (or am I confusing it with the Opaline gene?)...the reason for my earlier question...

# ... I thought the YF (if Type II) will similarly affect the Grey body colour (& especially the wing markings) as it happens in the Blue bird turning out to become Sea-foam Green...maybe the Grey gene is too dominant over the YF gene?

# Considering the Single- & Double- factors that the babies may inheret->...so Grey's also have the Single & Double factors just as the Cobalt & mauve colours result in the blue-series birds?....would these SF & DF colour adding factors then just result in deeper shades of Grey...?...will the DF Grey get near "Charcoal black"?

...your second bird has a bit of washed-out markings to the front of wings?...any relation to it being SF & DF?...or could it be Opaline affecting this wing markings of Hen...or are your 2 birds above just "Normal Greys" without any factors...?

Can't wait to see the SF & DF Spangle young from the above though...have U got babies at this time...seems that U'r pairing up the new additions only for now...

Stay well!
JacodK
 

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T1 yellow face grey spangle **** & T1 yellow face opaline spangle grey hen
If either are double factor grey all the chicks will be grey (except the double factor spangles). If they are both single factor grey you will get some blue.

Assuming they are both single factor grey, and the **** is not split for opaline, you can expect:
3.125% single factor spangle blue
3.125% single factor grey
1.5625% double factor grey
1.5625% normal blue
6.25% double factor spangle (white)
6.25% single factor spangle single factor grey
6.25% single factor spangle double factor grey
6.25% single factor yellow face single factor spangle blue
6.25% single factor yellow face single factor grey
3.125% single factor yellow face double factor grey
3.125% single factor yellow face blue
12.5% single factor yellow face double factor spangle (YF white)
12.5% single factor yellow face single factor spangle single factor grey
3.125% double factor yellow face single factor spangle double factor grey [will have white faces]
3.125% double factor yellow face single factor spangle blue [will have white faces]
3.125% double factor yellow face single factor grey [will have white faces]
1.5625% double factor yellow face double factor grey [will have white faces]
1.5625% double factor yellow face blue [will have white faces]
6.25% double factor yellow face double factor spangle [will have white faces]
6.25% double factor yellow face single factor spangle single factor grey [will have white faces]
3.125% single factor spangle double factor grey
All the males will be split for opaline
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Wow!

Thanks for this Nev...it's just amazing the variety!...AND THERE ACTUALLY IS A YF DF SPANGLE in the young... a white bird with Yellow-face!..(thx for correcting me in my earlier wrong assumption!).....that's just great..

I feel like sticking this outcome list on a wall somewhere safe & ticking off the babies that arrive...albeit that:

# I wouldn't be able to visually distinguish (for example) between the white-faced DF YF grey with either a SF or DF?..would I?

What is your opinion / experience on the shade of Grey between SF & DF Grey?

# Similarly the 2 "White bird" outcomes would also be problem wouldn't it?....comparing the DF Spangle and the DF YF DF Spangle (3rd from last)...without test breeding with others that is...

# ...then there will be ~12% of young having White Faces...

.. I'm sure it will take some time breeding these two parents to get the low% chicks...but who knows..

# As ATV mentioned..will there be a visual / noticable difference between the amount of yellow going into the wing markings (replacing white) coming from the Type1 or Type II Yellow-face genes?...assuming now the visual Type I (as you confirmed above) is masking a Type II YF gene..if the latter is possible..

...(if not possible in this pairing, what is your "general view")?

# Sorry for all the questions, but this is exciting...would some of the ~12% Blue birds be of any use in adding depth of body colour when paired up with Cobalt Blue "normals"..?..

....and what factor would these ~12% "blues" be...?

Thanks a lot for making this so much fun!
JacodK
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

The only pair I have set up right now the eggs should be hatching is Apollo and Raine- and its not really looking to good (it is their 1st time breeding though at least together I don't know if Raine was ever bred before)
Oh 2 Spangles as well.... interesting expected young then...and Raine is cute and tiny, isn't she..I bet U like the White / light-coloured birds... pieds also...U didn't show Faith before on TB have U...she's worth "showing-off"!

I love Greys, I'm actually trying to get Less grey wings - Seems every one who contacts me for birds wants brightly colored and well the grey wing takes that bright color to a dull color LOL but seems I keep getting birds with it or split to it w/out realizing they have it .. maybe some one is trying to tell me something and I'm not doing a good job listening lol
Good to know about "GreyWings" & body colour...
Keep trying with the colours -U must be doing a whole lot more correct than wrong... when we look at the babies produced so far...!

I have other pairs set up with eggs but either they're just starting to lay or its not time yet for them to start hatching, some haven't laid yet so i'm patiently waiting
Waiting...it's all part of the excitement of this hobby..isn't it?!

Watch out- I've got a baby "cinnamon surprise" just waiting to be "published" on TB..by the way..ur website looks different, since I've been there last...and very nice, with menus 2 left, bird pics and all ..
 

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Thanks :) I've been doing some updating on my site off and on reorganized the page of my birds(not for sale) earlier today, Took off all the "hand fed babies" since there are no more right now lol

yep I've posted about Faith on here

oddly enough I like the bright deep colors But I keep getting Grey wings or cinnamon's so it Dulls the body lol

I'm starting to think my one new female American I got back in April is a Dilute and not a Grey wing - The markings are the same on both but with dilute it dilutes the body a lot more than Grey wing does, and she's pretty lightly colored

Oh 2 Spangles as well.... interesting expected young then...and Raine is cute and tiny, isn't she..I bet U like the White / light-coloured birds... pieds also...U didn't show Faith before on TB have U...she's worth "showing-off"!

Good to know about "GreyWings" & body colour...
Keep trying with the colours -U must be doing a whole lot more correct than wrong... when we look at the babies produced so far...!

Waiting...it's all part of the excitement of this hobby..isn't it?!

Watch out- I've got a baby "cinnamon surprise" just waiting to be "published" on TB..by the way..ur website looks different, since I've been there last...and very nice, with menus 2 left, bird pics and all ..
 

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# I wouldn't be able to visually distinguish (for example) between the white-faced DF YF grey with either a SF or DF?..would I?
Sometimes you can tell but most times single or double factors can only be sorted out by breeding results
What is your opinion / experience on the shade of Grey between SF & DF Grey?
A single factor mauve grey will probably be darker than a double factor sky blue grey so they could be hard to sort out
# Similarly the 2 "White bird" outcomes would also be problem wouldn't it?....comparing the DF Spangle and the DF YF DF Spangle (3rd from last)...without test breeding with others that is...

# ...then there will be ~12% of young having White Faces...
Nothing comes easy

# As ATV mentioned..will there be a visual / noticable difference between the amount of yellow going into the wing markings (replacing white) coming from the Type1 or Type II Yellow-face genes?...assuming now the visual Type I (as you confirmed above) is masking a Type II YF gene..if the latter is possible..
Type 1 yellow face cannot mask type 2. As your birds are both type 1 this won't be a problem
....and what factor would these ~12% "blues" be...?
The shade of blue you get will depend on the dark factors of the parents.

Don't forget that the outcome prediction presumes they are both single factor grey, and the **** is not split for opaline. If this is not the case or if they have other hidden genes the results will be different
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Many thanks Nev,

Now to wait for the first eggs... I just hope the 2 birds get to like one another...the hen appear to be a bit scared...she is the smaller of the 2 though....hiding away in the nest box...at least the **** (young bird) is not chasing her around...he was so active (after hens) when in the flight....I thought he'll be the first to be interested when given the chance (like now) ...but now in the breeding cage he appear too calm?..

Let's see what these hold from a successful 1st hatch..
jdk
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi All,

...with kind assistance from Louara..this thread was "re-activated"...

...since my last post the below chicks has arrived from the noted pairing...and I'm hoping these "baby pictures" will give some nice / better insight into the earlier "baby expectations" that was given by the TB experts...(all correct of course!):

Here goes...all 5 chicks from a single nest:
Baby 1 (YF Grey Cobalt Spangle):
1_Budgy1011_0056e1s.jpg

Baby 2 (YF Opaline Spangle "Light-Grey", Hen - like mom):
2_Budgy1011_0250e1s.jpg

Baby 3 (YF Opaline Spangle Grey, ****):
3_Budgy1011_0151e1s.jpg

Baby 4 (Opaline Spangle Sky Blue, Hen):
4_Budgy1011_0152e1s.jpg

Baby 5 (YF Grey):
5_Budgy1011_0186e1s.jpg

Do guess (/correct me if I'm wrong) the mutations / sexes of the above chicks....

Some questions however I have are:
- Would the fact that 4 of the 5 babies were "grey" of some kind...be an indication whether dad ("Mr G"-Mr Grey) is actually having a Double-factor of Grey?

-Is there any way to tell (given both parents are sex-linked opaline..) from which parent these babies inhereted the "opaline"-gene...could be at random from either parent...

..like chick no 2 (I think a hen), which is "almost identical looking" to mom "MilkyBar"?...did the Opaline, in this case, come from Dad (making him split for Opaline)?

Thx for your views!
 

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This is certainly one of the best group of birds I've ever seen. I think that if it was a DF Grey all the babies must be grey.
 
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