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Your Budgie's Health Learn about avian health and vet care. This forum does not substitute for veterinary expertise.
Thread Description:Respiratory problem + perhaps something else

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Old 03-11-2015, 01:57 PM
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Default Treatment with antibiotics failed. Still sick. Have no idea what to do

I have now given Ludvig one drop of Baytril (wide range antibiotics) per day for seven days, and he has not shown any improvement. I originally took him to the vet because of what I posted here https://talkbudgies.com/diseases-illn...y-problem.html

The vet checked both him and Melvin thoroughly when I went down a week ago, listening to their lungs etc. She also took two droppings and checked them under a microscope. She said both of them looked 100 % healthy, clean rump and all (Melvin has itched more than normal is in his rump lately). Ludvigs lungs sounded perfectly normal, so does the rest of him. Both of the droppings did not have any parasites etc in them. With other words - completely healthy birds.

If it wasn't for Ludvigs breathing. He got extremely stressed out by the vet holding him, and the wheezing sound has never been that loud before. Even the vet got a concerned look on her face. We kinda stand with two alternatives: he might have a chronic illness, such as a problem with his throat, which can resemble asthma (I literally lack the words for what I mean, so lets go with asthma), or he might have an illness which is harder to detect, such as Psittacosis. It is very, very rare here, but the biggest sign it's not it, is the fact that Ludvig is still alive.

We therefore got a prescription for Baytril. Seven days on antibiotics is tough, and I'm glad it's done. However, I'm worried Melvin has caught the same thing, even though they are showing different symptoms. Melvin has, as I said, been itching in his *** a lot. Some of his droppings has been too small, or not come out at all. Both have very little appetite.

The reason for why I'm worried is because Ludvig has gotten worse. His symptoms, which has not changed after the antibiotics treatment:
- wheezing and sound coming from his lungs when distressed/out of breath from a long flight, in addition to tail bobbing (with other words, he has a hard time getting enough oxygen after activity)
- loss of appetite
- he has always developed a little late, still kinda clumsy when flying, can stand on his own feet without noticing, etc. Mentioning this because it is a symptom of Psittacosis.
- wakes me up during the night, making an awful sound unwillingly. Like he's really struggling to breathe. Have not heard from him lately, because I sleep with earplugs now..
- sneezes at times, but Melvin sneezes more often
- sometimes weird, wheezing background sound when chirping

To check for Psittacosis and a lot of other diseases, we'll literally have to send a dropping to Germany. Further testing in Norway can be done though.
As I said, 7 days on antibiotics is tough. However, I'm scared he'll suddenly go downhill and it turns out it wasn't something chronic.

Do any of you have any idea on what it might be, what treatment can be done, what tests need to be done and what is the right thing to do? Thank you so much in advance. If there is anything your wondering about, if there is a symptom I might not have mentioned, let me know.

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Old 03-11-2015, 03:41 PM
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Did the vet do any blood work? I would look into that as not everything is revealed by a fecal exam. In any case I would let the vet know that things have not improved. The fact that the droppings are small may be an indication of how little they are eating. Your birds may need to be hospitalized if they are not eating and drinking, the vet can feed them and give them fluids if necessary as well as medicate them, maybe by injection rather than orally. Sometimes the first antibiotic is not the one that does the job. I have had my vet change drugs because the first was not giving the expected results, and once the change was made we saw improvement. I hope things improve for them soon.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:18 PM
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Did the vet do any blood work? I would look into that as not everything is revealed by a fecal exam. In any case I would let the vet know that things have not improved. The fact that the droppings are small may be an indication of how little they are eating. Your birds may need to be hospitalized if they are not eating and drinking, the vet can feed them and give them fluids if necessary as well as medicate them, maybe by injection rather than orally. Sometimes the first antibiotic is not the one that does the job. I have had my vet change drugs because the first was not giving the expected results, and once the change was made we saw improvement. I hope things improve for them soon.
Thank you for your reply. She did not do any blood work, it's not a standard over here, just as hospitalizing. They get enough to eat and drink, with some encouragement. Sending them away will probably just make them more stressed and prone to become even worse. I'll therefore keep them here. They are still all chirping and behaving normally, but I know how they can hide illnesses like ninjas. Thanks for the input!
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:32 PM
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I would want blood work especially for psitticosis. Is there anything in their enviroment that could be contributing. Is your home excessively dry or damp....any possibility of mold spores...carpet, throw rug's, etc. can cause issues as they release gases as they break down, both new and old. Dusty enviroment from living in a high traffic area or having heating duct's that are very dirty....there are a lot of different thing's like that to start thinking about or looking at......
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:42 PM
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I would want blood work especially for psitticosis. Is there anything in their environment that could be contributing. Is your home excessively dry or damp....any possibility of mold spores...carpet, throw rug's, etc. can cause issues as they release gases as they break down, both new and old. Dusty environment from living in a high traffic area or having heating duct's that are very dirty....there are a lot of different thing's like that to start thinking about or looking at......
That is very true, thanks! Ludvig was weird from he arrived, so it didn't come from my home. Plus, it's neither too try nor too damp, it's a very low traffic area etc. We're all pretty allergic in the house, so chance is we would have reacted as well if there was mold etc. Very few carpets, again because of allergy. I will keep it in mind though, thanks again! Calling the vet tomorrow as the treatment was unsuccessful, and ask her about blood work and probably schedule a new appointment.
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:43 PM
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Ask the vet if you should switch to Doxycycline.
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:41 PM
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I would suggest using a warm mist humidifier in the room with Ludvig and Melvin.

If you don't have one, you can take a small pot or electric crock pot filled with hot steaming water with a drop of eucalyptus oil added and place outside the cage but near it. Cover the cage and pot with a sheet to get the steam into the cage. The humidity and eucalyptus will help with the birds' respiration.

Another option is to move their cage into the bathroom and run hot water through the shower to get the room warm and steamy.

I would recommend having blood tests done to determine the actual illness so the correct medication can be prescribed.
https://talkbudgies.com/budgie-diseas...reference.html

If Melvin's droppings are small and not clearing properly, he may not be well hydrated. I'd suggest adding electrolyte to their drinking water bring their systems back into balance.

Once you and the Avian Vet have come to agreement on the proper treatment protocol and any medications are completed, you might want to begin using Apple Cider Vinegar to help boost the boys' immune systems.

https://talkbudgies.com/holistic-natu...r-vinegar.html

If you wish to consider supplements, you can order from Lady Gouldian Finch.com Superior Birds, Supplements, Medications & Supplies as they do international shipping.

Recommended supplements include:

Guardian Angel Guardian Angel (Supplement for sick or stressed birds)

Flourish - (Helps stimulate bird's immune system)

AviBios - (Probiotic promotes and maintains natural intestinal balance)

Soluvite D (Vitamin D supplement for birds who get limited sunlight)
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:51 PM
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Perhaps also suggest a phone consult with a another avian vet two heads are better than one sometimes, I would go with changing the meds as well did they talk about air sack mites at all? I do hope you have some good news soon for us thoughts and healing energy to both your budgies.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:22 PM
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If you are testing fir psittacosis it must be by blood and not feacal sample as you can get false negatives.

Treatment is 45 days on a tetracycline normally doxycycline is given. No calcium supplements can be given during treatment. All birds needed to be treated at the same time to prevent reinfection and you must disinfect daily.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:39 AM
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It is very difficult to diagnose psittacosis in budgies. Even with blood work, there are often false negatives, and the only true test is by necropsy (which we don't want!). Nonetheless, lots of great things can be revealed by a blood test, such as hormonal issues or organ issues, vitamin deficiencies, etc. If everything looks fine on a blood test and a fecal smear, it could be that Ludwig has a congenital defect.

One drop (how many ml?) of Baytril for 7 days is not enough to treat for an active respiratory infection. Your budgie will need antibiotics every 12 hours for at least 14 days to get rid of a bad infection. Baytril is great for crop infections and generalized bacterial infections, but your vet seems to have ruled out bacterial infections through a fecal smear. I would suggest trying Doxy as Susan suggests, or even Azithromycin is great for respiratory infections. I buy it at the pharmacy in a liquid form and administer as per my vet's instructions with a small syringe (no needle!).

The humidifier and warm steam suggests given by others will help with breathing issues. Does Ludvig appear to rub his cere excessively? This could be a sign of excess mucous blocking up the nares. Are you sure that he's not rubbing his oil gland (to get rid of the mucous and clean his cere) when you say that he's been paying more attention to scratching his bottom lately? That would be normal for a respiratory infection.

Best of luck with curing little Ludvig!
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